Path: ...!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 22:22:28 +0000 From: Joe Gwinn Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Expedition to Europa Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 18:22:27 -0400 Message-ID: <50218j16hsr1eld7etd48el006jibarams@4ax.com> References: <63br7jpf7le468rnljlfhaol4432dt70lq@4ax.com> <667f96cb$0$2873004$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <92018j574uvccf1r14g9tpaj1osktf7i2g@4ax.com> User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 91 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-cjCuP2qiKU+cFfySnurdyTdpjuJBpmAkLwREQ6J8Yo2QUVCZrsQepf5ZCoLlcFN3+H4Tu4k7t3TzR10!h2nFmERWfN2eZ/67yY7sPllYlDlv1Ivj7K8sU7fGlEkWZPojBDX2cKlufY47+r6Uv4u7fz0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 5017 On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 14:45:26 -0700, john larkin wrote: >On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 17:41:14 -0400, Joe Gwinn >wrote: > >>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:26:56 -0700, john larkin >> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:35:47 -0400, Joe Gwinn >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:04:11 -0700, Don Y >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 6/28/2024 10:08 PM, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> On 6/27/2024 5:17 PM, Don Y wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most big librarys carry AW. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it turns out that there is life in the ocean of Europa, which has >>>>>>>> existed for something like four billion years, it supports the general >>>>>>>> idea of "random but inevitable" theories of Abiogenesis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _Remembrance of Earth's Past_ has an interesting take on the whole >>>>>>> notion behind an "empty" universe.  It's a tedious read (mainly for >>>>>>> me coming from a non-chinese culture... just keeping track of the >>>>>>> characters is difficult) but has some good ideas to chew on at its core. >>>>>> >>>>>> My guess: The Universe is mammoth, the technological and energy requirements of >>>>>> even short-distance interstellar travel are immense, the lifespan of >>>>>> technological civilizations is highly time-limited before such a civilization >>>>>> destroys itself, technological civilizations are very rare to begin with, and >>>>>> no technological civilization ever survives long enough to attempt it. >>>>> >>>>>That wouldn't explain why there are no *signs* of intelligent life. >>>>> >>>>>*We* can't (yet) travel interstellar distances in single lifetimes >>>>>but I'm sure anyone with technology comparable to ours would be able to >>>>>*detect* our presence (given that we seem to make no attempt at "hiding") >>>>> >>>>>_If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens ... WHERE IS EVERYBODY?_ gives some >>>>>interesting takes on the Fermi paradox. >>>> >>>>That's a bit self-important. >>>> >>>>If the universe is teaming with life, but alien civilizations capable >>>>of interstellar travel are exceedingly rare, there would be little >>>>reason for those spacefaring aliens to visit any but the other >>>>advanced alien civilizations. >>>> >>>>We might get the equivalent of an anthropologist ever few million >>>>year, and they would do whatever needed to prevent detection by that >>>>which they study. >>>> >>>>Joe Gwinn >>> >>>An intelligent alien lifeform is probably thousands of light-years >>>away. Unless they have a Warp Drive, there's no way they would want to >>>visit us. >> >>The claim being made was that because we were not seeing any >>intelligent aliens, they must not exist, or are very rare. Which does >>not follow. >> >> >>>A very advanced robot might. >> >>Even if they do have warp drives, they may still send a robot. >> >>But given the technological gulf between Earthlings and any >>civilization possessing any warp drive, we won't detect them unless >>they want us to. >> >> >>Joe Gwinn > >I think that life on Earth is someone's high school science project. We would have no way to tell for sure. I recall a Star Trek (?) episode what that was almost exactly what was happening - I recall that this powerful being was about to turn half the matter in the Sun into antimatter, which explosion would be a sight to behold - from a very great distance. This was averted when the powerful being's parents appeared and scolded their Child for playing with predators or the like. Joe Gwinn