Path: ...!news.nobody.at!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Jeff Liebermann Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Grease and waxes Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:54:52 -0800 Lines: 105 Message-ID: References: <87o77flvej.fsf@mothra.home> <6XWhO.22571$x727.17100@fx11.iad> <4kphjjtmh84rimm9spp1n02ps4635kj4bd@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net xzNBOsbYbh1PYYRdq+So7wXUNyBNDL7lwX1ZKLQv91FT/3j03y Cancel-Lock: sha1:4EDIVeRF3J6d1z2VemlHoxkfCPY= sha256:IDL/uo5rRZdFckq/uKkSmJkCD1fBSmf0/C/IIg02ElA= User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Bytes: 6457 On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:45:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: >On 11/16/2024 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >> >> I'm not sure what Tom "read out" but it probably wasn't the same >> textbooks that were used in the then current college courses because >> the libraries didn't stock those textbooks. >Even if Tom did read all the textbooks used in an engineering >curriculum, he would gain only a tiny fraction of the knowledge imparted >while earning a legitimate degree. > >Classrooms and teachers exist for very good reasons. It should be >obvious that knowledge at an engineering level normally requires >explanation, because it's difficult to understand. I spent countless >hours in class responding to student questions, and yet more hours in my >office giving individual help to students. That's true, but not for every type of student. Traditionally, people learn best via verbal lectures, reading printed media, and through lab experiments. More recently, we've added via videos and computer simulations. They all work, but individual students all have one method that works best for the student. The optimum combination is to have an instructor, professor or mentor available who prefers to teach using the method favored by the student. Since it is impossible to assemble a class where everyone favors the same learning method, it is up to the instructor to teach using all the methods. I've seen instructors who are superb at demonstrating how something works, but fall apart when trying to explain what is happening (or what might happen). As bad luck would have it, the most common methods of teaching (lecture and reading) are also the methods that are least preferred by most students. >And students don't just repeat what they've learned. Actually, the do repeat, or should I say regurgitate, what they've learned. See "Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman" in the chapter where he describes teach physics in Brazil. All the student could do was pass exams. Understanding and experiments were beyond their abilities. >They are given >assignments - problems to solve, projects to complete, parts to design, >lab experiments to perform, tests to run, and very difficult exams to >pass to demonstrate that they know how to _apply_ the knowledge. Reading >every textbook would involve none of that. Yep. The motto at Cal Poly Pomona was "Learn by Doing" which I've modified into "Learn by Destroying". We had a large contingent for foreign exchange students who were accustomed to the lower castes doing all the manual work. The upper classes never got their hands dirty. When it came to lab experiments, they were a hazard to themselves and everyone nearby. I'll spare you my horror stories about engineers who couldn't solder much less operate a screwdriver. >Recently, in a Barnes & Noble bookstore, I noticed this ludicrous book: >https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/a-degree-in-a-book-david-baker/1136270544 256 pages. Age 10 - 14. That might work as inspiring interest in engineering in a 10 year old. See below. >Right. "Everything you need to know - in one book!" At some time in the distant past, my parents decided that I needed an encyclopedia to help stimulate my education, or something like that. They purchased the entire Encyclopedia Britannica and a subscription to their yearbooks. According to the salesman, the encyclopedia contained everything that I need to know. This was 1958, one year after the launch of Sputnik caused the entire country to panic. I was 10 years old. At first I was rather hesitant and avoided using the encyclopedia. A little later, I became curious and began looking up things that seemed interesting. Basically, everything that I had been warned were dangerous, socially unacceptable, banned or otherwise "secret" information. I don't think my parents realized what I was doing until after I built and exploded a small bomb and a not very functional rocket. My parents were considering a book burning, but were dissuaded by someone from the army. This was the start of the space race. If the US was expected to "beat the Russians", students needed to develop an interest in dangerous things, which was exactly what I was doing. I won't go into the fiasco that followed, but I will mention that it was lots of fun and really got me interested in many different forms of engineering. It was about 5 years later when I realized that technology did not stand still and that my personal encyclopedia was seriously out of date. My encyclopedia was a fair substitute for a visit to the library but after a few embarrassing mistakes, I obtained library cards from multiple libraries and gave up on the encyclopedia. I also obtained a "stack pass" to the UCLA (university) library, which was crammed full of books that I could barely understand. I asked too many questions and eventually was declared a pest. Such is the price of learning. >Of course, it made me think of Tom. I don't think of Tom. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558