Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Catrike Ryder Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:23:12 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 125 Message-ID: References: <58u2jj9t74sk7ior8iquj15f2ai7bcouu6@4ax.com> <87v7wsunz2.fsf@mothra.home> <93p8jjl43oufp7l30ohlubr3likqlbbekl@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 21:23:17 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="31ef1f7219cfe64d9ede943435c158c8"; logging-data="2507665"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+QuWYI8CcelxQ5vCOnuRe/nlikIEQLBNs=" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Cancel-Lock: sha1:VRQNynZKXAT1WAeVILnsIBqWvYA= Bytes: 6315 On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: >On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski >> wrote: >> >>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote: >>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of >>>>>>>>>> stuff on >>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a >>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll >>>>>>>>>> see a >>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger! >>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended >>>>>>>>> that no >>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And there's this: >>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg >>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional >>>>>>>> side paths. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more >>>>>>> dangerious then the road? >>>>>> >>>>>> No, I did not argue that. >>>>>> >>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and >>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Quit emulating Tom. >>>>> >>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads." >>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on >>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!" >>>>> --Frank Krygowski >>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm >>>> >>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes >>>> are] more dangerous then the road?" >>>> >>>> spelling corrected and context clarified. >>>> >>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again >>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my >>> positions are convincing anybody. >> >> >> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a >> distortion? >> >> Here it is again.... >> >> >> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads." >> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on >> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!" >> --Frank Krygowski >> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm > >This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be." No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you wrote. >And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No. >98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz > >His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the >earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a >thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American >Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per >million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW >first, WA second, LAB third: > >Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41 >Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59 >Multiuse trail: 181, 91, 88. > >All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than >ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled. > >And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with >reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small >portion of our rides use such trails. Didn't you admit that you used them? >BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in >question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of >leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over >an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs. Another undocumented anecdote..... >That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the >pavement stays quite clean. Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved. Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are worthless. -- C'est bon Soloman