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From: David Brooks <applefanboy@btinternet.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: What is YOUR view?
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 20:12:41 +0100
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On 31/03/2024 18:19, RonO wrote:
> On 3/31/2024 5:59 AM, David Brooks wrote:
>> The new MARTIN DURKIN DOCUMENTARY : CLIMATE: THE MOVIE
>>
>> https://www.climatethemovie.net/
>>
>> It's rather an uphill battle I fear.
>>
> 
> The NCSE had to take up global warming denial because the ID perps had 
> become the most effective organization for keeping creationism out of 
> the public schools because they were running their bait and switch scam 
> on the rubes that had converted over to ID creationism, so the 
> creationist attempts were effectively stopped because the creationists 
> had never listened to the science side of the issue, but when the 
> creationists scam artists selling you the scam told the rubes not to do 
> it, they tended to listen.  Science denial is science denial, but what 
> is the real issue with global warming?
> 
> We are putting out a lot of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.  Some 
> people worry about methane, but the effect is likely negligible because 
> methane doesn't last very long in the atmosphere.  We likely did 
> accelerate global warming with our increased output of carbon dioxide, 
> but we did it at a time when global temperatures had already been 
> increasing for thousands of years.
> 
> We need to better define what the crisis is.
> 
> We probably should be nearing the end of the current warming period. For 
> the last million years we have had the 100,000 year ice age cycles. The 
> earth has been cooling for the last 3 million years, but for the last 
> million we went to a cycle of around a hundred thousand years of cold 
> interspersed with 20 to 30 thousand years of warmer climate.  The 
> temperatures of the cycles seem to have become more extreme in the last 
> 500,000 years.  The last warm period got warmer than it is now, and more 
> ice melted and sea levels were 20 meters higher than they are now.  We 
> have not reached that point, yet in this cycle, so things are not yet as 
> bad as they got without human industrial interference.
> 
> There was an article put up on TO, maybe a decade ago, that claimed that 
> the current carbon dioxide levels could prevent a recession into another 
> ice age.  We might delay the next ice age.  This really doesn't seem to 
> be that bad.  We got a taste of what things would be like when 
> temperatures fell for the mini ice age that started in the 1300's and 
> didn't end until the start of the industrial revolution that is supposed 
> to be responsible for our current global warming.  Since we are around 
> the end of the warm cycle it may be that things would have just kept 
> getting colder without human intervention.  Europe would have been 
> rendered nearly uninhabitable.  The Greenland colony died out during 
> this cold period.  North America's northern latitudes would have likely 
> failed to be colonized by Europeans.  The industrial revolution would 
> have likely shifted to countries closer to the equator.  We would be 
> crying about very different circumstances if the world had continued to 
> get colder instead of warming back up by 1850.
> 
> So, we likely have to figure out what the crisis is.  The earth has seen 
> warmer climates that had more ice melting and sea levels rising to the 
> levels that they claim may occur this time, but they obviously happened 
> before.  So the regions that will be flooded will just be a repeat of 
> what happened last time a hundred thousand years ago.  If we delay the 
> next ice age arctic ecology will suffer more than last time if the warm 
> period is extended.  What we observe today are the remnants of what has 
> survived thousands of years of reduced habitat.  A lot of arctic species 
> had already gone extinct before the industrial revolution.  Arctic 
> ecologies have their heydays during the glacial periods when currently 
> highly populated regions like New York were under a mile of ice.  Things 
> started to get warmer before the glacial maximum 25,000 years ago.  It 
> may be that the climate should be getting colder at this time, but is 
> that something that we want to happen?  Do we want to go back to a time 
> when New York city was under a mile of ice and polar bears had sea ice 
> year round to hunt all the seals that were lying around?  The Islands 
> worried about being flooded out would instead see their coral reefs dry 
> out and more of the coral atolls be exposed.  They would have issues 
> with things like getting the reefs reestablished in what was deeper 
> water, and they would have to try to reduce erosion so that there would 
> be something above sea level during the next warm period.
> 
> So, the crisis has to be defined, and what we should do about it, 
> probably, has to be figured out.
> 
> Ron Okimoto

Thank you so much for your comprehensive response, Ron.  🙂

Much appreciated.

Please clarify "NCSE" - I'm not certain to what organisation you refer.

-- 
David