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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 02:24:52 +0100
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On 10/03/24 01:30, olcott wrote:
> On 3/9/2024 6:24 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 10/03/24 01:22, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/9/2024 5:57 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 10/03/24 00:26, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/9/2024 5:10 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/03/24 23:22, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/9/2024 3:50 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/03/24 22:34, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What criteria would you use so that Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ knows what
>>>>>>>>> wrong answer to provide?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is stipulated to use the exact same objective 
>>>>>>>> criteria that H ⟨Ĥ⟩ uses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simulating halt deciders must make sure that they themselves
>>>>>>> do not get stuck in infinite execution. This means that they
>>>>>>> must abort every simulation that cannot possibly otherwise halt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This requires Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to abort its simulation and does not
>>>>>>> require H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to abort its simulation when Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ aborts
>>>>>>> its simulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ does simulate itself in recursive simulation H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>> does not simulate itself in recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is stipulated to use the exact same objective criteria 
>>>>>> that H ⟨Ĥ⟩ uses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Only because Ĥ.H is embedded within Ĥ and H is not*
>>>>> Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ can possibly get stuck in recursive simulation and
>>>>> H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ cannot possibly get stuck in recursive simulation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You dishonestly ignored that Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is stipulated to use the 
>>>> exact same OBJECTIVE criteria that H ⟨Ĥ⟩ uses.
>>>
>>> The above is true no matter what criteria that is used
>>> as long as H is a simulating halt decider.
>>>
>>
>> Objective criteria cannot vary based on who the subject is. They are 
>> objective. The answer to different people is the same answer if the 
>> criteria are objective.
> 
> It is objectively true that Ĥ.H can get stuck in recursive
> simulation because Ĥ copies its input thus never runs
> out of params.
> 
> It is objectively true that Ĥ cannot possibly get stuck
> in recursive because H does not copy its input thus runs
> out of params.
> 

Wrong. Dead wrong. Stupidly wrong. So wrong that a dead monkey could do 
better. Write the Olcott machine (not x86utm) code for Ĥ and I would 
show you.