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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: The behavior of D(D) varies between its correct simulation by
 H1(D,D) and H(D,D)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 22:17:08 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/22/24 11:34 AM, olcott wrote:
> *The behavior of D(D) is changed when the simulated D is specified*
> *to have a pathological relationship with its own simulator*

Nope. H just makes a INVALID deduction that the call to H will not 
return when properly simulated (which it can not do).

> 
> D(D) simulated by H1 calls H(D,D) from its own machine address 00001d1e 
> returns to its caller at machine address 00001d54.
> 
> *Contrasted with*
> 
> D(D) simulated by H calls H(D,D) from its own machine address 00001d1e 
> and cannot possibly return to its caller because it would remain stuck 
> in recursive simulation until aborted.

Nope, since H DOES abort and return 0, the CORRECT SIMULATION of this 
input will do this too (just as H1 did).

The fact that a DIFFERENT machine, that isn't what H actually is, would 
get stuck in an infinite loop is irrelevant, as H isnt that other 
machine, and looking at the other machine is just invalid logic.


> 
> _D()
> [00001d12] 55         push ebp
> [00001d13] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001d15] 51         push ecx
> [00001d16] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001d19] 50         push eax
> [00001d1a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001d1d] 51         push ecx
> [00001d1e] e81ff8ffff call 00001542
> [00001d23] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001d26] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001d29] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001d2d] 7402       jz 00001d31
> [00001d2f] ebfe       jmp 00001d2f
> [00001d31] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001d34] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
> [00001d36] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001d37] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001d37]
> 
> _main()
> [00001d42] 55         push ebp
> [00001d43] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001d45] 68121d0000 push 00001d12 ; push address of D
> [00001d4a] 68121d0000 push 00001d12 ; push address of D
> [00001d4f] e8eef6ffff call 00001442 ; call H1(D,D)
> [00001d54] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001d57] 50         push eax
> [00001d58] 6863070000 push 00000763
> [00001d5d] e820eaffff call 00000782
> [00001d62] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001d65] 33c0       xor eax,eax
> [00001d67] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001d68] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0039) [00001d68]
> 
> int D(int (*x)())
> {
>    int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>    if (Halt_Status)
>      HERE: goto HERE;
>    return Halt_Status;
> }
> 
> int main()
> { // The call from D simulated by H1 to H(D,D) return 1.
>    // The call from D simulated by H to H(D,D) cannot possibly return.
>    Output("Input_Halts = ", H1(D,D));
> }
> 
>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>   address   address   data      code       language
>   ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
> [00001d42][00102fe9][00000000] 55         push ebp      ; begin main()
> [00001d43][00102fe9][00000000] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp
> [00001d45][00102fe5][00001d12] 68121d0000 push 00001d12 ; push D
> [00001d4a][00102fe1][00001d12] 68121d0000 push 00001d12 ; push D
> [00001d4f][00102fdd][00001d54] e8eef6ffff call 00001442 ; call H1(D,D)
> 
> H1: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:113095
> Address_of_H1:1442
> [00001d12][00113081][00113085] 55         push ebp      ; begin D
> [00001d13][00113081][00113085] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp
> [00001d15][0011307d][00103051] 51         push ecx
> [00001d16][0011307d][00103051] 8b4508     mov  eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001d19][00113079][00001d12] 50         push eax      ; push D
> [00001d1a][00113079][00001d12] 8b4d08     mov  ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001d1d][00113075][00001d12] 51         push ecx      ; push D
> [00001d1e][00113071][00001d23] e81ff8ffff call 00001542 ; call H(D,D)
> 
> H: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:15dabd
> Address_of_H:1542
> [00001d12][0015daa9][0015daad] 55         push ebp      ; begin D
> [00001d13][0015daa9][0015daad] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp
> [00001d15][0015daa5][0014da79] 51         push ecx
> [00001d16][0015daa5][0014da79] 8b4508     mov  eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001d19][0015daa1][00001d12] 50         push eax      ; push D
> [00001d1a][0015daa1][00001d12] 8b4d08     mov  ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001d1d][0015da9d][00001d12] 51         push ecx      ; push D
> [00001d1e][0015da99][00001d23] e81ff8ffff call 00001542 ; call H(D,D)
> H: Recursive Simulation Detected Simulation Stopped (return 0 to caller)
> 
> [00001d23][0011307d][00103051] 83c408     add esp,+08   ; returned to D
> [00001d26][0011307d][00000000] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001d29][0011307d][00000000] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001d2d][0011307d][00000000] 7402       jz 00001d31
> [00001d31][0011307d][00000000] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001d34][00113081][00113085] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
> [00001d36][00113085][00001541] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001d37][00113089][00001d12] c3         ret           ; exit D
> H1: End Simulation   Input Terminated Normally (return 1 to caller)
> 
> [00001d54][00102fe9][00000000] 83c408     add  esp,+08
> [00001d57][00102fe5][00000001] 50         push eax     ; H1 return value
> [00001d58][00102fe1][00000763] 6863070000 push 00000763 ; string address
> [00001d5d][00102fe1][00000763] e820eaffff call 00000782 ; call Output
> Input_Halts = 1
> [00001d62][00102fe9][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001d65][00102fe9][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
> [00001d67][00102fed][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001d68][00102ff1][00000000] c3         ret           ; exit main()
> Number of Instructions Executed(470247) == 7019 Pages
>