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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Thu, 2 May 2024 12:45:44 -0500
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On 5/2/2024 4:07 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/29/2024 1:19 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 4/29/2024 11:17 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/29/2024 10:23 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/29/2024 9:37 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/2024 1:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/24 2:19 PM, olcott wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>> A simulating termination analyzer is not the same thing as a UTM.
> 
>>> At the moment, on this newsgroup, it's a meaningless term.  You seem to
>>> have used it merely as a synonym for halting decider in the past.  Yet
>>> you fail to say what you mean by it, if you mean something different.
> 
>>>> Within my brand new idea of a {simulating termination analyzer}
>>>> there is the idea of abnormal termination.
> 
>>> It's unlikely to be a brand new idea, whatever it might be, since you
>>> aren't familiar with the literature and so most likely have come up with
>>> somebody else's old idea.
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>> You've failed, repeatedly, to address the points I've been making in my
>>> last few posts, so it seems that you have accepted them.  In particular,
>>> you have accepted that "having been aborted" is indeed a final state for
>>> a turing machine or a program.
> 
>> All of the "points" that you have been making were entirely anchored in
>> your ignorance about what "simulating termination analyzer" are and how
>> they work.
> 
> I think it much more likely that there's no such thing as a "simulating
> termination analyzer". 

You say that when I my code proves that H does correctly
determine the halt status of these three inputs.

void Infinite_Recursion(u32 N)
{
   Infinite_Recursion(N);
}

void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
}

int factorial(int n)
{
   if (n >= 1)
     return n*factorial(n-1);
   else
     return 1;
}

int main()
{
   Output("Input_Halts = ", H(factorial, (ptr)5));
   Output("Input_Halts = ", H0(Infinite_Loop));
   Output("Input_Halts = ", H(Infinite_Recursion, (ptr)5));
}

> I.e. there's no theory about it, no interesting
> results, no use for it, or anything like that.  I've asked you several
> times to define this object, other people have asked you too, yet you
> fail to do so.  Producing a few lines of scrappy C code is not anything
> like producing a definition.
> 

When a simulating termination analyzer matches one of three
non-halting behavior patterns
(a) Simple Infinite loop
(b) Simple Infinite Recursion
(c) Simple Recursive Simulation

It aborts it simulation and reports that the input specifies
a non-halting sequence of configurations. Otherwise it continues
to simulate the input to completion. Non-terminating inputs that
have complex non-halting behaviors are outside of its domain.


> "Simulating termination analyzer" probably just means halt decider.  We
> all know there's no such thing.
> 

The difference is that as long as a STA gets one input that halts 
correctly and one input that fails to halt correctly then it is a
STA. An actual halt decider is required to be ALL knowing.

>> -- 
>> Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
>> hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer