Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: D Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom Subject: Re: Readercon code of conduct Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 22:56:19 +0200 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <98461c4b-c61b-8f6d-5bcf-69974873457c@example.net> References: <20240527172850.1573690f03e57af47ef1906f@127.0.0.1> <81aeb197-d389-656f-de9a-81b482f5764c@example.net> <58f87f77-3bb8-bc47-8e23-360646a3adef@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8323328-1745734007-1719262582=:19010" Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1063744"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="w/4CleFT0XZ6XfSuRJzIySLIA6ECskkHxKUAYDZM66M"; In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Bytes: 6411 Lines: 144 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-1745734007-1719262582=:19010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 24 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: > D wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 23 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: >> >>> D wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>>>> Bernard Peek  wrote: >>>>>>>>>> The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a >>>>>>>>>> mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if >>>>>>>>>> it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty >>>>>>>>>> feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times >>>>>>>>>> measured in hours. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One of the big problems preventing early measures from being >>>>>>>>> taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime. >>>>>>>>> The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no >>>>>>>>> human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible >>>>>>>>> to ignore.  The rest of the world needs to recognize that >>>>>>>>> totalitarian despots lie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse >>>>>>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some >>>>>>>> recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing >>>>>>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed >>>>>>>> completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info) >>>>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million >>>>>>> US      3,642 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But Sweden is hardly the best. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> France:  2,556 (fierce lockdown there) >>>>>>> Germany: 2,182 (ditto) >>>>>>> Ireland: 1,891 >>>>>>> Norway:  1,024 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> nor is the US the worst: >>>>>>> Bulgaria: 5,661 >>>>>>> Hungary:  5,106 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various >>>>>>> strategies, what worked, what didn't. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the >>>>>>> US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have >>>>>>> double the death rate of Norway? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> pt >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk. >>>>> >>>>> There's a venerable method of evading discussion >>>>> of a questionable Internet claim by refusing >>>>> discussion unless some form of evidence which is >>>>> thought difficult to obtain is first supplied. >>>>> >>>>> I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death >>>>> rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better? >>>>> >>>>> At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain >>>>> excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate: >>>>> >>>>> https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid >>>>> >>>>> On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions', >>>>> and you can compare countries against each other. >>>>> >>>>> I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's >>>>> here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc >>>>> >>>>> Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared >>>>> to Norway, in the early part of the pandemic. Norway >>>>> has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly >>>>> closely. >>>>> >>>>> So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden >>>>> that saved so many lives? >>>>> >>>>> Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden >>>>> has a lot more excess deaths than the US. >>>>> >>>>> pt >>>> >>>> Let me show you this instead... >>>> >>>> https://www.europaportalen.se/2023/03/sverige-hade-lagsta-overdodligheten-under-coronapandemin-i-eu >>>> >>>> The graph shows the percentage change between the average number of deaths >>>> per year for 2017-2019 and the average for 2020-2022. >>> >>> Again, I ask you, what did Norway do right, and Sweden do wrong, to have >>> more >>> than twice the deaths per,population? >>> >>> Pt >> >> That's completely irrelevant. Excessmortality is the name of the game. > > Fine. Look at the excess mortality chart I linked on Imgur. Why does Sweden > have such huge peaks of excess mortality, compared to Norway, in early > 2020 and early 2021? What did Sweden do wrong, or Norway do right? > > The data is right there. Answer the question. > > Pt > That chart lacks enough data. Look at my chart. Sweden ranks lowest! --8323328-1745734007-1719262582=:19010--