Article <vart74$dhr3$1@dont-email.me>

Deutsch English Français Italiano
<vart74$dhr3$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.xs3.de!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Phillip Johnson wiki
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2024 09:43:32 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 364
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <vart74$dhr3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vaoi4q$3ma1s$1@dont-email.me> <vap7r1$3sqo2$1@dont-email.me> <vapt1g$3vtd8$1@dont-email.me> <vaqoou$4lq8$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="57872"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+p2va14QflSarFgoS3CQ/OGhLZ8=
Bytes: 22918

On 2024-08-29 21:21:32 +0000, RonO said:

> On 8/29/2024 8:28 AM, RonO wrote:
>> On 8/29/2024 2:26 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-08-29 01:16:08 +0000, RonO said:
>>> 
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_E._Johnson
>>>> 
>>>> Earlier this month I noted that someone had remove the Johnson 
>>>> capitulation quote from the Johnson wiki.  There seems to be no valid 
>>>> reason for removing the quote, and Athel claimed that he had emailed 
>>>> the editor that made the edit to see what was going on.  I guess 
>>>> nothing has come of the request.
>>> 
>>> No. I had a back-and-forth discussion with the editor in question, 
>>> mainly consisting of me suggesting a wording that he would accept and 
>>> refrain from editing it back to what it was. He objected to all of 
>>> these, except the last, which he hasn't replied to. I thought I'd leave 
>>> it a month and then fix it.
>> 
>> If you do not get this guys buy in, can he just remove it again?  What 
>> were his reasons for removing a perfectly valid quote, and Johnson's 
>> admission about the ID scam when Johnson never retracted what he had 
>> said.
>> 
>> In the previous thread I note other people using the quote including 
>> Ken Miller in a public presentation, and I do not recall any blow back 
>> from Johnson.
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The quote actually brings closure to the entire wiki entry of which a 
>>>> major part is about Johnson's participation in the intelligent design 
>>>> creationist scam.
>>>> 
>>>> There is absolutely no doubt that Phillip Johnson wanted ID taught in 
>>>> the public schools.  He had made it part of his Wedge strategy.  It was 
>>>> one of the 5 years goals listed in the Wedge document, but 20/20 
>>>> hindsight indicates that Johnson never fully understood the science, 
>>>> and did not understand that the ID perps never had any legitimate ID 
>>>> science worth teaching in the public schools.
>>>> 
>>>> The Phillip Johnson wiki has the claim that Johnson did not understand 
>>>> scientific reasoning "In 1993 the ASA's Perspectives on Science and 
>>>> Christian Faith published a review of Darwin on Trial by Nancey Murphy, 
>>>> an associate professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological 
>>>> Seminary, who described Johnson's arguments as "dogmatic and 
>>>> unconvincing", primarily because "he does not adequately understand 
>>>> scientific reasoning.""  Johnson had been convinced by the other ID 
>>>> perps that the ID science existed, and could be taught in the public 
>>>> schools.
>>>> 
>>>> Johnson got others involved in the ID scam.  Most notably then Senator 
>>>> Santorum.  Johnson supposedly wrote the draft of the IDiotic 
>>>> "amendment" to the no child left behind legislation that was submitted 
>>>> by Santorum and ended up in the appendix of that legislation.  Both 
>>>> Santorum and Johnson claimed that the inclusion of the "amendment" 
>>>> supported teaching intelligent design in the public schools.
>>>> 
>>>> By 2002 most of the other ID perps at the Discovery Institute likely 
>>>> understood that they had nothing worth teaching as ID science in the 
>>>> public schools, so when Ohio hit the fan and the ID perps were invited 
>>>> to give their dog and pony show to the Ohio State School board the ID 
>>>> perps decided to start running a bait and switch scam where they would 
>>>> just use ID as bait, but only give the rubes an obfuscation and denial 
>>>> swtich scam that the ID perps would tell the creationist rubes had 
>>>> nothing to do with ID.  It does not look like the ID perps bothered to 
>>>> inform Santorum and Johnson of what they planned to do because both 
>>>> Johnson and Santorum came out in support of teaching ID in the public 
>>>> schools in Ohio before the bait and switch went down.
>>>> 
>>>> Johnson put up the Santorum editorial on his ARN blog as the bait and 
>>>> switch was going down in Ohio.  There is no reason why Johnson would 
>>>> hang Santorum, out to dry like that if he knew that the bait and switch 
>>>> scam was going to start to go down, and no reason for Santorum to have 
>>>> written the opinion piece if he knew that the bait and switch was going 
>>>> down.
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.arn.org/docs/ohio/washtimes_santorum031402.htm
>>>> 
>>>> QUOTE:
>>>> "I hate your opinions, but I would die to defend your right to express
>>>> them." This famous quote by the 18th-century philosopher Voltaire
>>>> applies to the debate currently raging in Ohio. The Board of Education
>>>> is discussing whether to include alternate theories of evolution in the
>>>> classroom. Some board members however, are opposed to Voltaire's defense
>>>> of rational inquiry and intellectual tolerance. They are seeking to
>>>> prohibit different theories other than Darwinism, from being taught to
>>>> students. This threatens freedom of thought and academic excellence.
>>>> 
>>>> Today, the Board of Education will discuss a proposal to insert
>>>> "intelligent design" alongside evolution in the state's new teaching
>>>> standards.
>>>> END QUOTE:
>>>> 
>>>> QUOTE:
>>>> At the beginning of the year, President Bush signed into law the "No
>>>> Child Left Behind" bill. The new law includes a science education
>>>> provision where Congress states that "where topics are taught that may
>>>> generate controversy (such as biological evolution), the curriculum
>>>> should help students to understand the full range of scientific views
>>>> that exist." If the Education Board of Ohio does not include intelligent
>>>> design in the new teaching standards, many students will be denied a
>>>> first-rate science education. Many will be left behind.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick Santorum is a Republican member of the United States Senate from
>>>> Pennsylvania.
>>>> 
>>>> Â© 2002 News World Communications. All rights reserved. International
>>>> copyright secured.
>>>> File Date: 3.14.02
>>>> END QUOTE:
>>>> 
>>>> So neither Santorum nor Johnson likely knew of the strategy shift for 
>>>> the ID scam.  After Ohio 2002 the ID perps only used the teach ID scam 
>>>> as bait, and never delivered any ID science to any creationist rubes 
>>>> that wanted to teach it.
>>>> 
>>>> You could still download the teach ID scam booklet from a Discovery 
>>>> Institute web site when Dover hit the fan, but the bait and switch had 
>>>> gone down in every case for the previous 3 years after Ohio.
>>>> 
>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20040921022045/http://www.discovery.org/ 
>>>> scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=58
>> 
>> As I noted this is the booklet that the ID perps used to give out with 
>> their Wedge video.  The booklet was published in 1999 and the link that 
>> I give above is what was available in 2005.  If you click on the 
>> download link you get a 2004 pdf copy of the booklet.  It is no secret 
>> that teaching ID in the public schools was one of the 5 year goals 
>> listed in the Wedge document.
>> 
>> This booklet is also infamous for being used by the Thomas More lawyer 
>> defending the Dover rubes when an ID perp tried to lie about the 
>> Discovery Institute selling the teach ID scam to school boards.  The 
>> lawyer pulled the booklet out of his pocket and quoted from it.  Meyer 
>> the director of the ID scam unit was one of the authors of that booklet 
>> along with DeWolf head of legal for the Discovery Institute, and a law 
>> professor (DeForrest) from Gonzaga that claimed to have been a 
>> Discovery Institute fellow on his web site.
>> 
>> http://ncse.com/news/2005/10/discovery-institute-thomas-more-law-center- 
>> squabble-aei-foru-00704
> 
> The More lawyer describes the bait and switch that the Discovery 
> Institute ID perps had been running on the creationist rubes, but he 
> called it a "strategy" instead of the bait and switch scam that it has 
> been.
> 
> QUOTE:
> Now, Stephen Meyer, you know, wanted his attorney there, we said
> because he was an officer of the Discovery Institute, he certainly could
> have his attorney there. But the other experts wanted to have attorneys,
> that they were going to consult with, as objections were made, and not
> with us. And no other expert that was in the Dover case, and I'm talking
> about the plaintiffs, had any attorney representing them.
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========