Article <vii6c0$2llr6$1@dont-email.me>

Deutsch English Français Italiano
<vii6c0$2llr6$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Top three reasons for optimism about the ID scam
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2024 11:28:31 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 123
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <vii6c0$2llr6$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="89394"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:rF/eYAMAUzTq20hDMw0GFwrW64Q=
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 9887

https://evolutionnews.org/2024/11/happy-thanksgiving-here-are-michael-dentons-top-3-reasons-for-optimism-about-id-2/

The ID perps have an article up on Denton's "top three reasons" to be 
optimistic about the intelligent design creationist scam.  This should 
likely be taken in context.  Denton has deistic notions that have never 
been accepted by the other ID perps in their efforts to maintain their 
"big tent" revival creationist scam.  Nearly all the other ID perps and 
IDiotic creationist rubes want to believe in personal god that is 
constantly involved in matters of our existence.  Denton was one of the 
original ID perp fellows, but he quit the ID scam when the other ID 
perps did not appreciate his notions about god and evolution in his 
second book.  Denton admitted that biological evolution was a fact of 
nature and his deistic notions of what the designer could be did not go 
over well with the other ID perps.  The other ID perps published their 
discussion of Denton's book and Denton was not part of that discussion. 
So Denton was no longer a fellow until he likely needed the money and 
rejoined after the creationist defeat in Dover.  Denton rejoined knowing 
that the ID scam had just been a bait and switch effort since he had 
left.  ID had only been used as bait to push the ID perps obfuscation 
and denial stupidity.  Even after rejoining Denton has not been treated 
very well.  I put up one article where the interviewer was making fun of 
Denton's claims of being an agnostic.  The conclusion from that article 
was that Denton had not been totally honest about the matter and that he 
wasn't any type of agnostic that most people would relate to.  Really, 
the interviewer wrote that Denton had a "sly twinkle" in his eye when 
discussing the matter, and that he admitted that he may only be a back 
sliding Christian.

So even the other ID perps know that Denton is a liar, and that they do 
not want to believe in his designer.

#1.  "the "relentless" growth of the ID movement, in academia and around 
the world."

This seems to be a lie.  The ID network folded up and quit back in 2009, 
and started COPE.  They have since reactivated their web site, after 
nearly a decade of failure with COPE in selling the obfuscation and 
denial switch scam, but aren't doing much else.  They still have not 
made any press releases since around 2007.  ARN discussion board and 
uncommon descent were closed.

Just the fact that the bait and switch has continued to go down 100% of 
the time that any rubes want to teach the junk should be noticeable.  It 
took around 6 years after the bait and switch was run on the Utah 
creationist rubes back in 2017 for the West Virginia creationist rubes 
to try again in 2023, and it took 4 years after the bait and switch on 
both Louisiana and Texas in 2013 for the Utah rubes to make their effort 
in 2017.  There just are not that many creationist rubes out there that 
do not understand that there has never been any ID science worth 
teaching in the public schools

ID died on TO and uncommon descent after the ID perps put out their Top 
Six in their order that they must have occurred in this universe.  Even 
the IDiots at Reason To Believe stopped being IDiots after the Top Six 
came out.  You can go to the Reason to Believe site, now, and you will 
be hard pressed to identify them as once being IDiots.  They used to 
claim that they were IDiots, but that they did not want to teach ID in 
the public schools like the ID perps at the Discovery Institute. 
Senator Santorum gave up on the ID scam after having the bait and switch 
run on him in Dover in his home state.  These guys did not quit being 
creationists, they just quit being IDiotic creationist rubes.

#2.  "A second reason is the way any materialist explanation of the 
origin of life keeps looking more and more implausible. James Tour’s 
Harvard roundtable discussion with top OOL researcher Lee Cronin was 
telling on that subject."

It isn't that the origin of life keeps looking more and more 
implausible, but that it is about the last god-of-the-gaps type 
arguments that are still considered to be viable by creationists.  Tour 
has claimed to understand that ID has been a scam, and that he does not 
know how to do any ID science.  Tour's origin of life claims are due to 
his understanding that ID is dead, but he can't give up on the denial. 
The origin of life is only used as a god-of-the-gaps denial argument. 
TO found out that Biblical creationists do not want to believe in the 
designer responsible for the origin of life on this planet after the Top 
Six was put out.  The designer of the Top Six god-of-the-gaps denial 
arguments is not the creator described in the Bible.  MarkE, like Tour, 
could not give up on the origin of life gap denial, but came to realize 
that he did not want to believe in the designer of the gap that he was 
trying to claim could not be filled by a natural occurrence.  MarkE quit 
posting when he could not reconcile the designer responsible for the 
origin of life on this planet with the creator described in the Bible. 
It is a lose lose proposition.  Even if some designer is found to be 
responsible for the origin of life on this planet it would not be the 
Biblical designer, and the Bibilcal designer would end up to be the 
false god.  There is no point in the gap denial when you will have to 
admit that the creation story in the Bible is metaphorical, and cannot 
be taken literally.

#3.  "And finally, says Denton, there is a mounting realization that the 
mind is irreducible to matter, upsetting the Darwinian presumption that 
everything must reducible to matter."

The Supreme court has already informed the creationist rubes that just 
because science currently cannot explain something, that is not support 
for their alternative.  It only means that their alternative has not 
been ruled out.  The problem with the reasoning behind #3 and why it 
doesn't mean that support for ID is expanding when it really means that 
the number of such claims has been constantly been getting smaller.  In 
the history of human kind there has been a 100% failure rate for claims 
like these.  Every single time we have finally figured out what is going 
on, some god has been ruled out.  What god makes the seasons change? 
What god makes babies?  No god-did-it claim has ever been verified.  The 
earth is not flat.  There is no firmament above the earth that some god 
opens up to let the rain fall through.  The earth is not the center of 
the universe with everything else spinning around us.  The 7 days of 
creation are not consistent with the order of the Top Six, nor the age 
of the earth based on Genesis calculations.

The ID perps presented their Top Six god-of-the-gaps denial stupidity in 
such a way that it killed ID on TO.  Most of the IDiots posting did not 
want to believe in the best evidence for ID.  It turned out that they 
had only been wallowing in the denial and never wanted to have the ID 
perps succeed in producing any valid ID science.  Any valid science 
involving the Top Six would just be more science for Biblical 
creationists to deny.

Ron Okimoto