Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 19:02:18 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 93 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 02:02:19 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="94abfe76188a905a3abc96eb60b79e1c"; logging-data="4181768"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19d7/18v9T34NY9us97uL/O" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:ONc5g+EzjianM+gmBs7C9ge2odw= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5407 On 4/26/2024 12:05 PM, olcott wrote: > On 4/26/2024 11:19 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 4/26/24 11:34 AM, olcott wrote: >>> On 4/26/2024 3:32 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-04-25 14:15:20 +0000, olcott said: >>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function >>>>> 02 { >>>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x); >>>>> 04   if (Halt_Status) >>>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE; >>>>> 06   return Halt_Status; >>>>> 07 } >>>>> 08 >>>>> 09 void main() >>>>> 10 { >>>>> 11   D(D); >>>>> 12 } >>>>> >>>>> That H(D,D) must report on the behavior of its caller is the >>>>> one that is incorrect. >>>> >>>> What H(D,D) must report is independet of what procedure (if any) >>>> calls it. >>>> >>> >>> Thus when H(D,D) correctly reports that its input D(D) cannot possibly >>> reach its own line 6 and halt no matter what H does then H can abort its >>> input and report that its input D(D) does not halt. >> >> But since the program D(D) DOES reach its own line 6 when run, because >> H aborts its simulation and return 0 (since that is what you say this >> H will do), your statement is PROVEN TO BE A LIE, and you "logic" just >> a collection of contradictions. >> > > D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 thus when we do > not use the strawman deception to refer to a different D then we know > that D simulated by H never halts. > >>> >>> The fact that the D(D) executed in main does halt is none of H's >>> business because H is not allowed to report on the behavior of its >>> caller. >>> >> >> In other words, H doesn't need to report on the Behavior of the >> Program described by its input because it isn't actually a Halt >> Decider, because you are just a LIAR. >> >> > > Anyone knowing the theory of computation knows that H is not allowed to > report on the behavior of its caller. > > In computability theory and computational complexity theory, an > undecidable problem is a decision problem for which it is proved to be > impossible to construct an algorithm that always leads to a correct yes- > or-no answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecidable_problem > > The behavior of the simulated D(D) before H aborts its simulation is > different than the behavior of the executed D(D) after H has aborted > its simulation. > > Every time that a simulated input would never stop running unless > aborted the simulating termination analyzer must abort this simulation > to prevent its own infinite execution. > > H(D,D) is a case of this H1(D,D) is not a case of this even though > the only difference between H and H1 is that D calls H and D does > not call H1. > > D simulated by H would never stop running unless aborted and cannot > possibly reach its own line 06 and halt no matter what H does. > > Thus whenever we do not use the strawman deception to refer to a > different D we know that D simulated by H specifies a non-halting > sequence of configurations to H. > *This might be a more succinct way of summing that up* When you understand that D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 (thus cannot possibly halt) no matter what H does and you understand that it is incorrect for H to report on the behavior of its caller: void main() { D(D); } then this necessitates H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer