Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Teilhard de Chardin - new documentary
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 14:16:41 +0100
Organization: Newshosting.com - Highest quality at a great price! www.newshosting.com
Lines: 128
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <3luj4j9e6aqt6gnotv9v7ler9rkjlck37k@4ax.com>
References: <00mh4jhgge1kn69fhaq3mer8ol739ohacs@4ax.com> <T92dnefaopjGb9X7nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <ombi4jtap1qcs2a7guu1fvccuotlndu84k@4ax.com> <lqycncUfvfxRqtT7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <c5bj4jtqcqclr18a84bv2o2bsl46758eor@4ax.com> <uP-dnf56e8LUeNT7nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="33116"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Bytes: 8465

On Sun, 19 May 2024 11:40:57 +0000, *Hemidactylus*
<ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

>Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:20:44 +0000, *Hemidactylus*
>> <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 18:24:27 +0000, *Hemidactylus*
>>>> <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> (RNS) - In the history of the Catholic Church, too many innovative
>>>>>> thinkers were persecuted before they were accepted and then embraced
>>>>>> by the church.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The list includes St. Thomas Aquinas (whose books were burned by the
>>>>>> bishop of Paris), St. Ignatius Loyola (who was investigated by the
>>>>>> Spanish Inquisition) and St. Mary MacKillop (an Australian nun who was
>>>>>> excommunicated by her bishop for uncovering and reporting clergy child
>>>>>> sex abuse).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's not surprising, then, that a French Jesuit scientist, Pierre
>>>>>> Teilhard de Chardin, who tried to bridge the gap between faith and
>>>>>> science, got himself in trouble with church officials and his Jesuit
>>>>>> superiors in the 20th century. Only after his death was he recognized
>>>>>> as the inspired genius that he was.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> His story is magnificently told in a new PBS documentary, "Teilhard:
>>>>>> Visionary Scientist," which was produced by Frank Frost Productions in
>>>>>> a 13-year labor of love. It took Frank and Mary Frost to four
>>>>>> countries on three continents, a total of 25 locations, and included
>>>>>> more than 35 interviews.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [?]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Teilhard: Visionary Scientist" will premiere on Maryland Public
>>>>>> Television on May 19 and be available for national and international
>>>>>> streaming for two years, beginning on May 20, on the free PBS app.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2024/05/13/pierre-teilhard-de-chardin-pbs-documentary-247920
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Will this awkwardness be included in the magnificent retelling?:
>>>>> ?Teilhard has been criticized as incorporating common notions of Social
>>>>> Darwinism [sic] and scientific racism into his work, along with support for
>>>>> eugenics,[41] Teilhard sharply criticized the idea of racial equality,
>>>>> saying in 1929: "Do the yellows?[the Chinese]?have the same human value as
>>>>> the whites? [Fr.] Licent and many missionaries say that their present
>>>>> inferiority is due to their long history of Paganism. I'm afraid that this
>>>>> is only a 'declaration of pastors.' Instead, the cause seems to be the
>>>>> natural racial foundation?"[41] Too, he said in 1936, "As not all ethnic
>>>>> groups have the same value, they must be dominated, which does not mean
>>>>> they must be despised?quite the reverse?In other words, at one and the same
>>>>> time there should be official recognition of: (1) the primacy/priority of
>>>>> the earth over nations; (2) the inequality of peoples and races."[41] And
>>>>> around 1937, he said, "What fundamental attitude?should the advancing wing
>>>>> of humanity take to fixed or definitely unprogressive ethnical groups? The
>>>>> earth is a closed and limited surface. To what extent should it tolerate,
>>>>> racially or nationally, areas of lesser activity? More generally still, how
>>>>> should we judge the efforts we lavish in all kinds of hospitals on saving
>>>>> what is so often no more than one of life?s rejects??To what extent should
>>>>> not the development of the strong?take precedence over the preservation of
>>>>> the weak?"[41]
>>>>> In 1951, Teilhard continued to argue for racial and individual eugenics,
>>>>> and wrote a strongly worded criticism of the United Nations declaration of
>>>>> the Equality of Races. He continued to argue for eugenics as late as 1953,
>>>>> two years before his death.[41] Nevertheless, he has also been defended by
>>>>> theologian John F. Haught.[42][43]?
>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/teilhard-eugenics
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://ejournals.bc.edu/index.php/ctsa/article/view/11473/9623
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Funny how that author of that piece chooses to quote so much from an
>>>> attack on Teilhard by Slattery, a recent doctoral graduate, but quotes
>>>> nothing from the dismantling of his arguments by Haught, a
>>>> Distinguished Research Professor. Equally funny that you give a link
>>>> to Slattery's response to Haught without referring at all to Haught's
>>>> arguments. [1]
>>>> 
>>>> Echoes of those who take isolated quotes from Darwin's work out of
>>>> context to make him out to have been a racist.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/trashing-teilhard
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> Credentialism duly noted, alongside evasion of the issues addressed by
>>> newbie PhD Slattery, how dare he go up against a Distinguished Research
>>> Professor. 
>> 
>> Yet again, you cannot attack me for what I said so you try to attack
>> me for something I did *not* say.
>> 
>You’re the one who resorted to flaunting social status of the Distinguished
>Research Professor over the lowly recent doctoral graduate, indicative of
>an overweening arrogant condescension I’ve come to expect from you. 

Nope, I simply pointed out that both the Wiki editor and you have
chosen to emphasise the lesser qualified person and ignore the better
qualified one - bias confirmation, anyone?

Your claim about "credentialism" is somewhat like somebody buying Ron
Dean's opinions about Darwin and Paley and ignoring the opinions of a
certain learned professor who frequents these parts and just happens
to know rather a lot about the subject.

>> 
>>
>> Nyikos is dead, ling live Hemidactylus!
>> 
>Topped off by a gratuitous insult.  

You've worked hard to earn the handle, that's 3 times I've called you
out for it in as many weeks. Stop behaving like him and I will stop
calling you out for it.

>
>I get it. Your hero Teilhard can have no warts. 

Oh, he has plenty of warts but none quite so bad as the irresistible
itch he seems to give you.

>
>