Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Julieta Shem Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: on levels of disappointment (Was: Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 20:37:56 -0300 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 76 Message-ID: <878r1uuiej.fsf_-_@tudado.org> References: <20240329084454.0000090f@gmail.com> <20240329101248.556@kylheku.com> <20240329104716.777@kylheku.com> <20240330112105.553@kylheku.com> <87r0fp8lab.fsf@tudado.org> <87wmpg7gpg.fsf@tudado.org> <20240402084057.881@kylheku.com> <86h6gjpq3i.fsf_-_@williamsburg.bawden.org> <86cyr6pb2l.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <20240403134752.491@kylheku.com> <864jcioz0a.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <20240403160807.556@kylheku.com> <20240403161243.959@kylheku.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 23:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="bb48a4d207a32d025d5421b40825cb35"; logging-data="236346"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+lfZmfpD6Q1EoD5IBmYTqB1SzhqLxQ8bo=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:t7TJinOCR1+NqsHzAxaruN1Egt0= sha1:9BvisZZ1Y7klu6zkfg1/XpYsvRE= Bytes: 5586 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> writes: > On 2024-04-03, Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote: >> On 2024-04-03, Alan Bawden wrote: >>> Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> writes: >>> If you think about it, it's actually kind of ignorant to invent a >>> programming language with imperative if statements, but in which where >>> the math conditional is missing. >>> >>> If you think like a historian, you don't describe this as "ignorant". >>> It's just not something that was above the horizon in the mind set of >>> the time. After all, that mathematical notation you are referring to >>> isn't something that mathematicians get very formal about. >> >> That is a fair observation; roughly speaking, higher languages first >> evolved from that of the machine. Why we have an if /statement/ is that >> the machine has testing and branching in its instruction set, which are >> also statements. The imperative language that works by jumping around >> and shuffling mainly word-sized quantities inside a Von Neumann machine >> is an abstraction of machine language, not an abstraction of functions. >> >> The abstraction of machine language isn't ignorant, it's just different. > > But, right, okay; I lost a thoguht I had some hours earlier about this. > By the time we have a higher level language inspired by math formulas in > which you can do A * B + C, and define math-like functions, you would > think that the right synapse would fire between the right two brain > cells, so that a value-yielding conditional would be supplied. When you > have translation of arithmetic formulas to machine language, the scene > is ripe for such an operator. So maybe ignorance is a strong word, but > there is a margin for disappointment. But it's not the same disappointment as in having to use JIRA, right? :-) ``Writing bug reports on napkins and keeping them crumpled in a large black garbage bag is better than this fucking piece of crap called JIRA.'' -- Kaz Kylheku, 2016. (*) Full source --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- X-Received: by 10.200.47.116 with SMTP id k49mr3706471qta.61.1474251695757; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:21:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: comp.programming@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.157.2.1 with SMTP id 1ls4320407otb.4.gmail; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.2.104 with SMTP id 95mr3727234otb.133.1474251693667; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Path: b4ni5152iti.0!nntp.google.com!news.glorb.com!2.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!enother.net!enother.net!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Kaz Kylheku <221-50...@kylheku.com> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.linux,comp.programming,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Favourite Software Development Tools for Teams? Followup-To: comp.programming Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 02:21:29 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 11 Message-ID: <20160918192003.449@kylheku.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: OGJi3KNpFOhM58UHZwXj0w.user.gioia.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: ab...@aioe.org User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.0-18 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.programming.] On 2016-09-19, Triscal Islington wrote: > I'm finally heading my own software engineering project at work and, > since I call the shots, it's up to me to decide on what collaboration > and review tools we utilize on the project. > > I'm pretty well decided on git for source code management but what are > your favourite linux tool for bug tracking, code review, collaboration, etc? Writing bug reports on napkins and keeping them crumpled in a large black garbage bag is better than this fucking piece of crap called JIRA. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---