Path: ...!news.misty.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and
 infinite sets
Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 21:25:01 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <v38khd$2foi0$16@i2pn2.org>
References: <v3501h$lpnh$1@dont-email.me> <v362eu$2d367$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v363js$vg63$2@dont-email.me> <v36803$2d368$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v368je$100kd$3@dont-email.me> <v36rlr$13000$1@dont-email.me>
 <v37aa6$159q4$4@dont-email.me> <v38eqb$2foi0$5@i2pn2.org>
 <v38fl6$1bndb$2@dont-email.me> <v38g36$2foi0$12@i2pn2.org>
 <v38gpi$1bndb$4@dont-email.me> <v38ibi$2fohv$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v38ilr$1c8ir$1@dont-email.me> <v38j78$2foi0$13@i2pn2.org>
 <v38jqc$1c8ir$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 01:25:01 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="2613824"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg";
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
In-Reply-To: <v38jqc$1c8ir$3@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 3508
Lines: 69

On 5/29/24 9:12 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/29/2024 8:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/29/24 8:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/29/2024 7:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/29/24 8:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/29/2024 7:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/29/24 8:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/29/2024 6:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> *Formalizing the Linz Proof structure*
>>>>>>>>> ∃H  ∈ Turing_Machines
>>>>>>>>> ∀x  ∈ Turing_Machines_Descriptions
>>>>>>>>> ∀y  ∈ Finite_Strings
>>>>>>>>> such that H(x,y) = Halts(x,y)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And since NO H, can get right the H^ built to contradict IT, 
>>>>>>>> that claim is proven false.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> YOU KEEP TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH CHANGING THE SUBJECT
>>>>>>> THE ABOVE FORMALIZATION IS CORRECT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The above is the question that Linz asks and the he gets
>>>>> an answer of no, no such H exists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, you now agree with Linz. Good.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I said that Linz says that. The point is that the Linz
>>> template examines an infinite set of Turing Machine / input
>>> pairs the same way my H/D template references an infinite set
>>> of C function / input pairs.
>>>
>>
>> The difference is, In Linz's formulation, each machine is INDIVIDUALLY 
>> EVALUTED with its inputs, 
> 
> 
> *No that is never the case*


Of course it is.


> 
> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
> 
> The entire category of every decider/input pair is examined ALL AT ONCE.
> No one is dumb enough to look at each element of an infinite set
> one at a time because they know this takes literally forever.
> 

Why do you say that?

How do you run ALL the machines at once?

Maybe you can think of all of them running INDIVIDUALLY in parrallel, 
but each machine does what that machine does with the input that THAT 
machine was given.

You just don't understand what you are talking about.