Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: immibis Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Incorrect questions and halt deciders Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 05:58:10 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 68 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 04:58:12 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c1146dfdd5568c127a162dd734920f71"; logging-data="1513880"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18V8DSL8rMuMI2JlaTWq88g" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:uX7wVAUJpCtk+nhG2KVymMjHPfQ= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 3496 On 14/03/24 05:31, olcott wrote: > On 3/13/2024 11:22 PM, immibis wrote: >> On 14/03/24 04:19, olcott wrote: >>> On 3/13/2024 9:47 PM, immibis wrote: >>>> On 14/03/24 02:15, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 3/13/2024 7:34 PM, immibis wrote: >>>>>> On 14/03/24 00:20, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> For any program H that might determine whether programs >>>>>>> halt, a "pathological" program D, called with some input, >>>>>>> can pass its own source and its input to H and then >>>>>>> specifically do the opposite of what H predicts D will do. >>>>>>> No H can exist that handles this case. >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem >>>>>> >>>>>> It's a different D for every H. A lot of Hs correctly handle Ds >>>>>> for other Hs. >>>>>> >>>>>>> When you ask a man that has never been married: >>>>>>> Have you stopped beating your wife? >>>>>> >>>>>> the correct answer is no. >>>>> >>>>> That affirms a false presupposition thus cannot be correct. >>>> >>>> it does not. >>>> >>> >>> It seems to me that you don't know linguistics well enough. >>> I did not read this article. >>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/presupposition/ >>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from some men to YES/NO >>>>>>> there is no mapping from never married men to YES/NO >>>>>>> thus the question is incorrect for all unmarried men. >>>>>> >>>>>> the correct answer is no. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from some TM/input pairs to YES/NO >>>>>>> there is no mapping from H/D to YES/NO >>>>>> H(D) isn't valid input since H has two inputs. >>>>> >>>>> there is no mapping from H(D,D) to YES/NO >>>>> >>>> >>>> H(D,D) -> YES >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> H(D,D) -> NO >>>> >>>> are two mappings >>>> >>> >>> I did not say that precisely enough. >>> There is no mapping from the specific TM/input pair: >>> H(D,D) to Halts(D,D) >> >> Be even more precise because this doesn't seem to mean anything. > > *The same question exists in a hierarchy of generality to specificity* > There is a mapping from    D(D) to Halts(D,D). > There is a mapping from H1(D,D) to Halts(D,D) > There is no mapping from H(D,D) to Halts(D,D) > > What is a mapping from D(D) to Halts(D,D)? What do those words mean?