Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: David Brown Newsgroups: comp.lang.c Subject: Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 10:01:42 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <00297443-2fee-48d4-81a0-9ff6ae6481e4@gmail.com> <87msoh5uh6.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87y18047jk.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87msoe1xxo.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87ikz11osy.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <20240528144118.00002012@yahoo.com> <20240528185624.00002494@yahoo.com> <20240528232315.00006a58@yahoo.com> <20240529130818.000070bf@yahoo.com> <20240529225905.000041ec@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 10:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fdfefad547a4bfd715e4868508bad851"; logging-data="1698425"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18WCXU9L0QQ75SW5mi+Z1Ykk8cH6nCMDpM=" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:d3NGIYypOrzT9Z3yuhpX3IyX3tA= In-Reply-To: <20240529225905.000041ec@yahoo.com> Content-Language: en-GB Bytes: 4855 On 29/05/2024 21:59, Michael S wrote: > On Wed, 29 May 2024 14:07:00 -0400 > James Kuyper wrote: > >> On 29/05/2024 18:27, Malcolm McLean wrote: >>> On 29/05/2024 13:10, David Brown wrote: >>>> >>>> It wasn't the cheapest available, and 64 GB memory (and 4 TB SSD) >>>> don't come free.  (And I buy these bare-bones.  Machines with >>>> Windows "pre-installed" are often cheaper because they are >>>> sponsored by the junk-ware and ad-ware forced on unsuspecting >>>> users.) >>> Yes, I got a job at Cambridge which didn't work out (Cantab dons, >>> much less tolerant people then their counterparts at another >>> university, but that's another story). And I was given a brand new >>> Windows machine, and told that we had to use Linux. So I installed >>> a Linux version which ran on top of Windows. No good, I was told. >>> Might cause problems with that "interesting" set up. ... >> >> They're quite right in that regard, as I can testify from personal >> experience. >> >>> ... So I had to scrub a brand new version of Windows. >>> It felt like the most extravagant waste. >> >> Keep in mind that, as David pointed out, the "waste" was probably >> negative. You got a better price on the machine than you would have >> otherwise, and erasing that malware gave you more space to put useful >> stuff on your machine. > > May be, for laptps that is true. But for mini-PCs it is very different. > Windows is surprisingly expensive in this case. OEM license is sold for > ~75% of retail license price. > > The cheapest mini PC's from our main supplier all come with Windows (excluding a few "thin client" type systems - I am thinking of Intel NUC class of systems). In fact, I think /all/ the pre-built ones have Windows. But if you buy bare-bones - no RAM or SSD - there is no OS. This seems to be extremely common, right from the manufacturers. And no, companies like Intel or ASUS don't pay anything close to 75% of the retail price for the Windows license they install. I took a quick check on our supplier's site - the cheapest ASUS Mini PC with Windows 11 Pro is only 20% more than a stand-alone Windows 11 Pro license. And these ASUS machines don't actually come with much sponsored nonsense software, IME. I prefer to buy these machines bare-bones because they never have the memory or SSD sizes that I want, so I have to replace these anyway. I'd buy laptops bare-bones too (unless I needed Windows on it), but few places sell bare-bones laptops. Actually, it's probably 15-20 years since I last bought a laptop, so maybe my opinions there are not very relevant! (I typically use hand-me-downs from sales folk - when their machines get too slow from clogged up Windows, they buy new ones. I upgrade the memory, wipe the disk and install Linux, and the machine is better than it was when new.)