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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "B. Pym" Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: Re: on racket and other Lisps Date: Mon, 27 May 2024 23:39:30 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 116 Message-ID: References: <87h6juklf3.fsf@yaxenu.org> Injection-Date: Tue, 28 May 2024 01:39:31 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="f602e386ecaccd5eca901d418dfe446e"; logging-data="288146"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/1kNV6jAy+plSxJDv43T8Z" User-Agent: XanaNews/1.18.1.6 Cancel-Lock: sha1:N8AwgFoBcUV7drbUd4rZNJ7w0n4= Bytes: 4411 On 1/4/2024, George Neuner wrote: > Racket is derived from Scheme (which also is NOT Lisp). > Racket evolved from PLT Scheme - which WAS a Scheme. That's not even a proper sentence. Better: Racket evolved from PLT Scheme, which was a Scheme. Didier Verna: > The European Lisp Symposium is a premier forum for the > discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, > implementation, and application of any of the Lisp dialects, > including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, Clojure, Racket, > ACL2, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, SKILL, Hy, Shen, Carp, Janet, > uLisp, Picolisp, Gamelisp, TXR, and so on. Thomas Bushnell wrote: > > The first post to comp.lang.lisp was in November of 1986; _Common > > Lisp, The Language_ was published in 1984. > > Oh, that's just an artifact of the Great Renaming, which was 1986-7. > comp.lang.lisp is the new name of the old net.lang.lisp. The first > message was there can be found at > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=net.lang.lisp&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as > _mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=10&as_maxm=6&as_maxy=1982&selm=anews.Aucb > arpa.997 > > And is dated 1982-03-27 23:56:29 PST. > > It's by John Foderaro. The first sentence is: > > "The net.lang.lisp newsgroup is for the discussion of any and all lisp > dialects." The following code snippet runs under both Gauche Scheme and SBCL, and the output is identical: (let* ((step1 2) (step2 (cons (* step1 1000) 47))) (do ((i 1 (+ i step1)) (j 40 (+ j (case (mod i 3) ((0 1) (car step2)) ((2) (cdr step2))))) (sum 0 (+ sum (cond ((= 0 (mod j 2)) j) ((= 3 i) 500) ('else (* i 2.125)))))) ((> i 22) (values sum j)))) ===> 36664.375 16181 Does this tend to prove that Scheme is not a Lisp? Paul Graham, May 2001: A hacker's language is terse and hackable. Common Lisp is not. The good news is, it's not Lisp that sucks, but Common Lisp. Paul Graham: I consider Loop one of the worst flaws in CL, and an example to be borne in mind by both macro writers and language designers. From: John Foderaro Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: Re: the "loop" macro Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:51:26 -0700 > I'm not trying to join a debate on loop. I just wanted to present > the other side of [the issue so that] the intelligent people can > then weigh the arguments on both sides. > > I'm not suggesting that loop can be fixed either by adding > parenthesis or coming up with ways of indenting it to make it > understandable. It's a lost cause. > > ... > > Another great example from kmp: > > === from kmp > > For example, you might think > (loop with i = (random 100) for x from 1 to 10 do (print (list i x))) > and > (loop for i = (random 100) for x from 1 to 10 do (print (list i x))) > meant the same in English, [but they don't do the same thing in loop] > > === end kmp > > loop lulls you into thinking that you understand the program since > you understand English. Make no mistake about it, loop is its > own language. If you use it you condem everyone who reads the > code to also learn the loop language. Those who program in CL (COBOL-Like) are using the Loop language, which is not a dialect of Lisp. Furthermore, they are forcing those who read their code to learn the Loop language. Let's just say that Scheme is a better Lisp than CL (COBOL-Like) is.