Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Edward Rawde" Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: smart people doing stupid things Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 22:34:47 -0400 Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Lines: 137 Message-ID: References: Injection-Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 02:34:50 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com; logging-data="36607"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blueworldhosting.com" Cancel-Lock: sha1:XVuEzSGjzx32ysV3QtielGuFJ54= sha256:ljCnQJvXqiUSWhTg9c55nSBHUl2mZIJAy9iYejvyUlM= sha1:3LEx1XNyLRggBOmP6KSy9bJG/Bo= sha256:HAe9qctmzV87pI0IW+Tzf0+39q3e97OSYjE1pWA6HWI= X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Bytes: 6216 "Don Y" wrote in message news:v2bmtr$364pd$1@dont-email.me... > On 5/18/2024 3:49 PM, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>> What is a decision? >>>>> >>>>> Any option to take one fork vs. another. >>>> >>>> So a decision is a decision. >>> >>> A decision is a choice. A srategy is HOW you make that choice. >>> >>>> Shouldn't a decision be that which causes a specific fork to be chosen? >>> >>> Why? I choose to eat pie. The reasoning behind the choice may be >>> as banal as "because it's already partially eaten and will spoil if >>> not consumed soon" or "because that is what my body craves at this >>> moment" >>> or "because I want to remove that item from the refrigerator to make >>> room >>> for some other item recently acquired". >>> >>>> In other words the current state of a system leads it to produce a >>>> specific >>>> future state? >>> >>> That defines a strategic goal. Choices (decisions) are made all the >>> time. >>> Their *consequences* are often not considered in the process! >> >> In that case I'm not seeing anything different between decisions, goals >> and >> choices made by a human brain and those made by an AI system. > > There is none. The motivation for a human choice or goal pursuit will > likely be different than that of an AI. Yes > Does an AI have *inherent* needs > (that haven't been PLACED THERE)? I'm not sure I follow that. > >> But what started this was "People are invariably mislead by thinking that >> there is "intelligence" involved in the technology". >> >> So perhaps I should be asking what is intelligence? And can a computer >> have >> it? >> Was the computer which created these videos intelligent? >> https://openai.com/index/sora/ >> Plenty of decisions and choices must have been made and I don't see >> anything >> in the "Historical footage of California during the gold rush" which says >> it's not a drone flying over a set made for a movie. >> The goal was to produce the requested video. >> Some of the other videos do scream AI but that may not be the case in a >> year >> or two. >> In any case the human imagination is just as capable of imagining a scene >> with tiny red pandas as it is of imagining a scene which could exist in >> reality. >> Did the creation of these videos require intelligence? >> What exactly IS intelligence? >> I might also ask what is a reason? > > Reason is not confined to humans. It is just a mechanism of connecting > facts to achieve a goal/decision/outcome. > > Intelligence maps imagination onto reality. Again, would an AI > have created /The Persistence of Memory/ without previously having > encountered a similar exemplar? The idiot savant who can perform > complex calculations in his head, in very little time -- but who can't > see the flaw in the missing dollar riddle? > > Knock knock. > Who's there? > Banana > Banana who? > > Knock knock. > Who's there? > Banana > Banana who? > > .. > > Knock knock. > Who's there? > Banana > Banana who? > > Knock knock. > Who's there? > Orange > Banana who? > Orange you glad I didn't say Banana? > > Would an AI "think" to formulate a joke based on the APPROXIMATELY > similar sounds of "Aren't" and "Orange"? Um well they don't sound similar to me but maybe I have a different accent. > > Guttenberg has an interesting test for sentience that he poses to > Number5 in Short Circuit. The parallel would be, can an AI (itself!) > appreciate humor? Or, only as a tool towards some other goal? > > Why do YOU tell jokes? How much of it is to amuse others vs. > to feed off of their reactions? I.e., is it for you, or them? > > Is a calculator intelligent? Smart? Creative? Imaginative? That reminds me of a religious teacher many decades ago when we had to have one hour of "religious education" per week for some reason. Typical of his quesions were "why does a calculator never get a sum wrong?" and "can a computer make decisions?". Also typical were statements such as "a dog can't tell the difference between right and wrong. Only humans can." Being very shy at the time I just sat there thinking "there's wishful thinking for you". > > You can probably appreciate the cleverness and philosophical > aspects of Theseus's paradox. Would an AI? Even if it > could *explain* it? > >>>> I don't claim to know what a decision is but I think it's interesting >>>> that >>>> it seems to be one of those questions everyone knows the answer to >>>> until >>>> they're asked. > >