Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Edward Rawde" Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: smart people doing stupid things Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 18:49:14 -0400 Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Lines: 94 Message-ID: References: Injection-Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 22:49:18 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com; logging-data="16305"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blueworldhosting.com" Cancel-Lock: sha1:BML1UgTIICDYoXOpqshx3Tkaofg= sha256:DxcnCc90XKu2maVG53ebRaZd/ywVFENvi37qRrlCxoQ= sha1:E7LILMqwISmVZpRlL1e2KZBIha8= sha256:7/lcbihd3y4XATG76HXUpDjRYTEN+c19J5Agkk6GVt8= X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Bytes: 5370 "Don Y" wrote in message news:v2b845$2vo5o$2@dont-email.me... > On 5/18/2024 7:18 AM, Edward Rawde wrote: >> "Don Y" wrote in message >> news:v29fji$2l9d8$2@dont-email.me... >>> On 5/17/2024 9:49 PM, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>> "Edward Rawde" wrote in message >>>> news:v29bqi$14iv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com... >>>>> "Don Y" wrote in message >>>>> news:v29aso$2kjfs$1@dont-email.me... >>>>>> On 5/17/2024 7:11 PM, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>> "Don Y" wrote in message >>>>>>> news:v28rap$2e811$3@dont-email.me... >>>>>>>> On 5/17/2024 1:43 PM, Edward Rawde wrote: >>>>>>>>> Not sure how he managed to say master debaters that many times >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> seemingly keeping a straight face but it reminds me of this: >>>>>>>>> https://www.learningmethods.com/downloads/pdf/james.alcock--the.belief.engine.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One thing which bothers me about AI is that if it's like us but >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> intelligent than us then... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The 'I' in AI doesn't refer to the same sense of "intelligence" >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> you are imagining. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Strange that you could know what I was imagining. >>>>>> >>>>>> People are invariably mislead by thinking that there is >>>>>> "intelligence" >>>>>> involved in the technology. If there is intelligence, then there >>>>>> should >>>>>> be *reason*, right? If there is reason, then I should be able to >>>>>> inquire >>>>>> as to what, specifically, those reasons were for any >>>>>> "decision"/choice >>>>>> that is made. >>>> >>>> What is a decision? >>> >>> Any option to take one fork vs. another. >> >> So a decision is a decision. > > A decision is a choice. A srategy is HOW you make that choice. > >> Shouldn't a decision be that which causes a specific fork to be chosen? > > Why? I choose to eat pie. The reasoning behind the choice may be > as banal as "because it's already partially eaten and will spoil if > not consumed soon" or "because that is what my body craves at this moment" > or "because I want to remove that item from the refrigerator to make room > for some other item recently acquired". > >> In other words the current state of a system leads it to produce a >> specific >> future state? > > That defines a strategic goal. Choices (decisions) are made all the time. > Their *consequences* are often not considered in the process! In that case I'm not seeing anything different between decisions, goals and choices made by a human brain and those made by an AI system. But what started this was "People are invariably mislead by thinking that there is "intelligence" involved in the technology". So perhaps I should be asking what is intelligence? And can a computer have it? Was the computer which created these videos intelligent? https://openai.com/index/sora/ Plenty of decisions and choices must have been made and I don't see anything in the "Historical footage of California during the gold rush" which says it's not a drone flying over a set made for a movie. The goal was to produce the requested video. Some of the other videos do scream AI but that may not be the case in a year or two. In any case the human imagination is just as capable of imagining a scene with tiny red pandas as it is of imagining a scene which could exist in reality. Did the creation of these videos require intelligence? What exactly IS intelligence? I might also ask what is a reason? > >> I don't claim to know what a decision is but I think it's interesting >> that >> it seems to be one of those questions everyone knows the answer to until >> they're asked. > >