Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dimensional Traveler Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: GUILTY. All 34 counts. Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 07:55:22 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 96 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 16:55:22 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="eee820708272f5fd5cefeb26ec16cc46"; logging-data="508586"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+5pvxbBXO4rrBs0WgqAi9w" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:q2aNrnDkrtdOevAmLG8pSQ1ZCe0= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5470 On 6/3/2024 7:31 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote: > Adam H. Kerman wrote: >> BTR1701 wrote: >>> May 31, 2024 at 7:43:16 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman wrote: >>>> shawn wrote: >>>>> Sat, 1 Jun 2024 10:54:32 +1200, Your Name wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-05-31 10:46:00 +0000, FPP said: >>>>>>> On 5/31/24 4:48 AM, trotsky wrote: >>>>>>>> On 5/30/24 4:17 PM, FPP wrote: > >>>>>>>>> GUILTY. All 34 counts. > >>>>>>>> I called it. Let the whining begin! > >>>>>>> Yup... I was shooting for Friday. Really surprised, since a half hour >>>>>>> before, the judge was shutting it down for the day. > >>>>>> Trump the Chump's whining startedd immediately and his braindead >>>>>> supports declared "war" not long after. > >>>>>> Not that this decision means anything in reality. The whole mess will >>>>>> drag on for years longer yet with numerous appeals, counter-appeals, >>>>>> etc. Trump the Chump and most of the witnesses will be dead of old age >>>>>> before it ends, and even then you'll probably have their kids trying to >>>>>> clear their names one way or another. > >>>>> Not that long but yes, it will likely go on for a couple of years. >>>>> There are two level of appeals at the NY state level and then Trump >>>>> can try to jump to the US Supreme Court if both levels of appeal fail >>>>> to overturn the verdict. > >>>> There's no direct appeal from state court to federal court. They have to >>>> find a federal issue to dispute. > >>> There is a federal issue. The predicate crime that the state used to >>> bootstrap the state charges despite it being beyond the statute of >>> limitations was a federal crime, and one that both the DOJ and the FEC >>> had already looked at and determined there was no violation. So the >>> question of whether the entire basis of the state's case was valid is >>> a federal question. > >> I am certainly not going to agree that the feds ever made a finding of no >> violation. Prosecutors never say that out loud, anyway, when there are no >> charges preferred against the target of the investigation. The FEC isn't >> doing its job if every entity those funds passed through didn't receive >> a letter in which they found campaign disclosure violations. Fines should >> have been issued. > >> Do we know why prosecution was limited to Michael Cohen? > >> Say, was Stormy Daniels herself obligated to make disclosure? > >> I don't see how the issue is moot because the underlying crime can no >> longer be charged. > >> Trump's complaints that Biden is behind the conspiracy are equal >> protection but I doubt there's an actual equal protection argument to >> make. Mark Levin's tweet, that I referenced elsewhere, had several due >> process arguments to make. > >> But the issue of the state law itself cannot be contested in federal >> court. > > Ok. The point BTR1701 made here has bothered me for days. I didn't track > down the language of the criminal statute Trump was charged under, but I > found descriptions of what the charges were. I'll assume it's consistent > with the law, else Trump would have gotten the charges thrown out. > > In New York, in order for the charge of falsifying business > records to be bumped up to a felony, one must commit the crime > of falsifying business records when the "intent to defraud > includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal > the commission thereof." > > https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/whats-in-trumps-indictment/ > > To provide the case, the state doesn't prove that there was a violation > of the underlying law. The state proves intent to commit another crime, > or to aid or conceal the commission thereof. > > The state must prove intent to commit the crime without, in fact, > proving that the underlying crime was committed? > > Can one intend to commit a crime be proven without the crime having been > committed? The intent is the criminal act for the purpose of the > criminal charge of fraud based on proving intent in the underlying > crime? > > I don't get it. Possession of tools to commit burglary. -- I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky dirty old man.