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From: Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 16:28:32 -0400
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On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
> > moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:  
> >>> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
> >>>    moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:  
> >>>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>     moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:  
> >>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
> >>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>     
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
> >>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>     
> >>>>>>>>>      On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
> >>>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:  
> >>>>>>>>>      >Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
> >>>>>>>>>      >sight-readers,
> >>>>>>>>>      >that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
> >>>>>>>>>      >
> >>>>>>>>>      >(Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
> >>>>>>>>>      >something.)
> >>>>>>>>>      >
> >>>>>>>>>      ><rolls eyes>  
> >>>>>>>>>      
> >>>>>>>>>      I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
> >>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
> >>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days
> >>>>>>>>>      are of Asian origin...  
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
> >>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
> >>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
> >>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
> >>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
> >>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
> >>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
> >>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
> >>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
> >>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
> >>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
> >>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
> >>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way
> >>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
> >>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
> >>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
> >>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.  
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
> >>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
> >>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
> >>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
> >>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
> >>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
> >>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
> >>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
> >>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
> >>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
> >>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is
> >>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
> >>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
> >>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
> >>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
> >>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
> >>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
> >>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
> >>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
> >>>>>>> play the music.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
> >>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
> >>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
> >>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
> >>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
> >>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
> >>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
> >>>>>>> Wonder why that is?  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
> >>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
> >>>>>> view? 
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
> >>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
> >>>>> whitey.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
> >>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
> >>>>> you cheerlead for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
> >>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
> >>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
> >>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
> >>>>> needs 'fixing'.  
> >>>>
> >>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
> >>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
> >>>> artificially bifurcate society.  
> >>>
> >>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
> >>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
> >>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
> >>> groups.
> >>>
> >>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
> >>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
> >>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
> >>>
> >>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
> >>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
> >>>
> >>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
> >>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
> >>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
> >>> needs to be fixed?  
> >>
> >> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
> >> instance.
> >>  
> > Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
> > defend the indefensible.  
> 
> Let me help you out:  The 'general policy' is to promote blacks, 
> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to 
> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such 
> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust".
> 
And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras? 
> 
> >> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals.
> >>  
> > Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it
> > had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and
> > viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would
> > be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see
> > themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners
> > are walking away from extra income by not having more white players
> > - and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans.  
> 
> Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson.  Today, teams make money by
> winning.
> 
But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even
if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket
sales, right? 
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