Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 22:59:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: ACLU Accuses Asian Attorney of Using 'Coded' Racism; Fires Her; ACLU Sued by Government Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv References: Content-Language: en-US From: moviePig In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 253 Path: ...!news.nobody.at!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.chmurka.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!news.newsdemon.com!not-for-mail Nntp-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 02:59:13 +0000 X-Received-Bytes: 15034 X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsdemon.com Organization: NewsDemon - www.newsdemon.com Message-Id: <17c031331a3628f5$2091$3384359$c2d58868@news.newsdemon.com> Bytes: 15447 On 3/25/2024 5:59 PM, shawn wrote: > On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:32:50 +0000, BTR1701 wrote: > >> So now expressing fear of one's boss or describing his behavior as >> "chastising" is racist if the boss is black. >> >> And this is the ACLU we're talking about. Anyone who still thinks the ACLU is >> the constitutional rights advocate that it used to be needs their head >> examined. It's nothing but a shill for the most extreme and radical woke >> policies. >> >> --------------------- >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/us/politics/aclu-employee-fired-race-bias.html >> >> The civil liberties group is defending itself in an unusual case that weighs >> what kind of language may be evidence of bias against black people. >> >> Kate Oh was no one's idea of a get-along-to-go-along employee. During her five >> years as a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, she was an unsparing >> critic of her superiors, known for sending long, blistering emails to human >> resources complaining about what she described as a hostile workplace. >> >> She considered herself a whistle blower and advocate for other women in the >> office, drawing unflattering attention to an environment she said was rife >> with sexism, burdened by unmanageable workloads and stymied by a fear-based >> culture. >> >> Then the tables turned and Ms. Oh was the one slapped with an accusation of >> serious misconduct. The ACLU said her complaints about several superiors-- all >> of whom were black-- used "racist stereotypes". She was fired in May 2022. >> >> The ACLU acknowledges that Ms. Oh, who is Korean-American, never used any kind >> of racial slur, but the group says that her use of certain phrases and words >> demonstrated a pattern of willful anti-black animus. >> >> In one instance, according to court documents, she told a black superior that >> she was "afraid" to talk with him. In another, she told a manager that their >> conversation was "chastising". And in a meeting, she repeated a satirical >> phrase likening her bosses' behavior to suffering beatings. >> >> Did her language add up to racism? Or was she just speaking harshly about >> bosses who happened to be black? That question is the subject of an unusual >> unfair-labor-practice case brought against the ACLU by the National Labor >> Relations Board, which has accused the organization of retaliating against Ms. >> Oh. A trial in the case wrapped up this week in Washington, and a judge is >> expected to decide in the next few months whether the ACLU was justified in >> terminating her. If the ACLU loses, it could be ordered to reinstate her or >> pay restitution. >> >> The heart of the ACLU's defense-- arguing for an expansive definition of what >> constitutes racist or racially coded speech-- has struck some labor and >> free-speech lawyers as peculiar, since the organization has traditionally >> protected the right to free expression, operating on the principle that it may >> not like what someone says, but will fight for the right to say it. >> >> The case raises some intriguing questions about the wide swath of employee >> behavior and speech that labor law protects-- and how the nation's pre-eminent >> civil rights organization finds itself on the opposite side of that law, >> arguing that those protections should not apply to its former employee. >> >> A lawyer representing the ACLU, Ken Margolis, said during a legal proceeding >> last year that it was irrelevant whether Ms. Oh bore no racist ill will. All >> that mattered, he said, was that her black colleagues were offended and >> injured. > > And there is the major issue. It does not matter what she thought but > only what others thought or at least said they thought. Been there > done that where I was accused of something similar by someone who > remained nameless but who I'm sure I know because she was known to be > a troublemaker. Luckily in my case it wasn't taken as seriously given > that there was no evidence I did anything, but in Ms Oh's case it > doesn't matter that she did nothing wrong, but that her complaints > ended up bothering her colleagues enough that they finally complained. > > So her complaints did not matter but their complaints did. How does > that happen? > >> "We're not here to prove anything other than the impact of her actions was >> very real-- that she caused harm," Mr. Margolis said, according to a >> transcript of his remarks. "She caused serious harm to black members of the >> ACLU community." > > He doesn't address if her complaints had any basis in reality. If her > complaints did have a basis does it still matter if the others felt > she caused them harm? > >> Rick Bialczak, the lawyer who represents Ms. Oh through her union, responded >> sarcastically, saying he wanted to congratulate Mr. Margolis for making an >> exhaustive presentation of the ACLU's evidence: three interactions Ms. Oh had >> with colleagues that were reported to human resources. >> >> "I would note, and commend Ken, for spending 40 minutes explaining why three >> discreet comments over a multi-month period of time constitutes serious harm >> to the ACLU members, black employees,” he said. "Yes, she had complained about >> black supervisors, Mr. Bialczak acknowledged, but her direct boss and that >> boss's boss were black. "Those were her supervisors," he said. "If she has >> complaints about her supervision, who is she supposed to complain about?" > > Wait, so the complaint is that she complained to HR about her > supervisors over months, but not to others? How is that even an issue > that should lead to her firing? Isn't HR's role to help mitigate those > sorts of interpersonal issues. > >> Ms. Oh declined to comment for this article, citing the ongoing case. >> >> The ACLU has a history of representing groups that liberals revile. This week, >> it argued in the Supreme Court on behalf of the National Rifle Association in >> a 1st Amendment case, but to critics of the ACLU, Ms. Oh's case is a sign of >> how far the group has strayed from its core mission-- defending free speech-- >> and has instead aligned itself with a progressive politics that is intensely >> focused on identity. >> >> "Much of our work today," as it explains on its website, "is focused on >> equality for people of color, women, gay and transgender people, prisoners, >> immigrants, and people with disabilities." >> >> And since the beginning of the Trump administration, the organization has >> taken up partisan causes it might have avoided in the past, like running an >> advertisement to support Stacey Abrams' 2018 campaign for governor of >> Georgia. >> >> "They radically expanded and raised so much more money-- hundreds of millions >> of dollars-- from leftist donors who were desperate to push back on the scary >> excesses of the Trump administration," said Lara Bazelon, a law professor at >> the University of San Francisco who has been critical of the ACLU. "And they >> hired people with a lot of extremely strong views about race and workplace >> rules and in the process, they themselves veered into a place of excess. I >> scour the record for any evidence that this Asian woman is a racist and I >> don't find any." >> >> The beginning of the end for Ms. Oh, who worked in the ACLU's political >> advocacy department, started in late February 2022, according to court papers >> and interviews with lawyers and others familiar with the case. >> The ACLU was hosting a virtual organization-wide meeting under heavy >> circumstances. The national political director, who was black, had suddenly >> departed following multiple complaints about his abrasive treatment of >> subordinates. Ms. Oh, who was one of the employees who had complained, spoke >> up during the meeting to declare herself skeptical that conditions would >> actually improve. >> >> "Why shouldn't we simply expect that 'the beatings will continue until morale >> improves'," she said in a Zoom group chat, invoking a well-known phrase that >> is printed and sold on t-shirts, usually accompanied by the skull and >> crossbones of a pirate flag. She explained that she was being "definitely >> metaphorical". > > Ah, she made the mistake of saying what she was thinking and so made > herself a target for more beatings. > >> Soon after, Ms. Oh heard from the ACLU manager overseeing its equity and >> inclusion efforts, Amber Hikes, who cautioned Ms. Oh about her language. Ms. >> Oh's comment was "dangerous and damaging", Ms. Hikes warned, because she >> seemed to suggest the former supervisor physically assaulted her. > > This should have seen the ACLU laughed out of court for suggesting > such a thing. > >> "Please consider the very real impact of that kind of violent language in the >> workplace," Ms. Hikes wrote in an email. Ms. Oh acknowledged she had been >> wrong and apologized. Over the next several weeks, senior managers documented >> other instances in which they said Ms. Oh mistreated black employees. >> >> In early March, Ben Needham, who had succeeded the recently departed national >> political director, reported that Ms. Oh called her direct supervisor, a black >> woman, a liar. According to his account, he asked Ms. Oh why she hadn't >> complained earlier. She responded that she was "afraid to talk to him". >> >> "As a black male, language like 'afraid' generally is a code word for me," Mr. >> Needham wrote in an email to other ACLU managers. "It is triggering for me." >> Mr. Needham, who is gay and grew up in the Deep South, said in an interview >> that as a child, "I was taught that I'm a danger." To hear someone say they're >> afraid of him, he added, is like saying, "These are the people we should be >> scared of." > > Again a case of someone reading into what was said instead of taking > it in without asking why she was afraid. Perhaps because of her > experiences with her previous boss as the report says he was abrasive. > Instead it appears this new boss took to email to denigrate Ms Oh > which again leads to a reason she should win this case against the ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========