Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: moviePig Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 15:02:54 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 191 Message-ID: References: <9kednTImBeTyi977nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <20240517214352.0000779c@example.com> <20240518200826.00006faf@example.com> <20240519162832.00005523@example.com> Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 21:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ba9ef2bda203b97a72c94505bb3af5e2"; logging-data="154123"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19MDrPT8LJ/2L6NNXea7olsgHZqhMzgBL8=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:WFBb3FhsrhTmQdxR6ByNVLbUH0o= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 11535 On 5/20/2024 2:28 PM, BTR1701 wrote: > In article , moviePig > wrote: > >> On 5/19/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>> moviePig wrote: >>>> On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400 >>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400 >>>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-readers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means it's a racist form of white supremacy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Because only white people can sight read perfectly or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are of Asian origin... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call >>>>>>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support >>>>>>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that >>>>>>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most >>>>>>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it >>>>>>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are, >>>>>>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially >>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is >>>>>>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to >>>>>>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian. >>>>>>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available >>>>>>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras >>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively >>>>>>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>> play the music. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of >>>>>>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid >>>>>>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too >>>>>>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any >>>>>>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place). >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action' >>>>>>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your >>>>>>>>>>>> view? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class >>>>>>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to >>>>>>>>>>> whitey. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than >>>>>>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised >>>>>>>>>>> you cheerlead for it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and >>>>>>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on >>>>>>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how >>>>>>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that >>>>>>>>>>> needs 'fixing'. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.: >>>>>>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an >>>>>>>>>> artificially bifurcate society. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial >>>>>>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they >>>>>>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance >>>>>>>>> groups. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial >>>>>>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases, >>>>>>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a >>>>>>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations >>>>>>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job. >>>>>>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that >>>>>>>>> needs to be fixed? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given >>>>>>>> instance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to >>>>>>> defend the indefensible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me help you out: The 'general policy' is to promote blacks, >>>>>> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to >>>>>> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such >>>>>> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust". >>>>>> >>>>> And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it >>>>>>> had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and >>>>>>> viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would >>>>>>> be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========