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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Fred. Zwarts" Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: DD correctly simulated by HH cannot possible halt --- Try to prove otherwise --- x86 DD Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 21:51:02 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 104 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2024 21:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4aa76005a7c4778429e99a66774e7ab2"; logging-data="36249"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18AbmtqZ1xo84bd6Rmrp8Ax" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:KRnRc+OTPBVu70R0a3eC16fIaXY= Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5776 Op 03.jun.2024 om 14:42 schreef olcott: > On 6/3/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 6/2/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/2/2024 10:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 6/2/24 10:54 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR THAT THE INPUT SPECIFIES. >>>>> That you did get confused by the Linz text proves that you do >>>>> get confused. Previously it looked just like willful deception. >>>> >>>> Which is, for a Halt Decider, exactly and only the behavior of the >>>> Turing Machine the input describes. >>>> >>>> PERIOD. >>>> >>>> Anything else is just a LIE. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You don't seem to understand that you can't just "redefine" the >>>>>> system to meet your desires. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS. >>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING. >>>> >>>> No, Running DD(DD) and seeing that it will never, after an unbounded >>>> number of steps, indicate it is non-halting. >>>> >>>> DEFINITION. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS. >>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING. >>>> >>>> Right, and the input is a representation of a Turing Machine and its >>>> input, whose behavior the decider is to decide on. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS. >>>>> DD correctly simulated by HH specifies NON-HALTING. >>>>> >>>> >>>> And that is the machine the input describes. >>>> >>>> ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST A LIE. >>>> >>>>> You can't get away with implicitly saying that you >>>>> just don't "believe in" UTMs. >>>> >>>> I do, and a UTM is DEFINED as a machine that exactly reproduces the >>>> behavior of the machine described by its input. >>>> >>> >>> *If that was true then you prove that this statement is false* >>> *We can see that the following DD cannot possibly halt when* >>> *correctly simulated by every HH that can possibly exist* >> >> I have. >> >> You keep of forgetting that the phrase "DD cannot possibly halt" means, > > This eliminates the problem of you dishonestly removing context > *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT* > *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT* > *DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT* Because *HH* correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT > > typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C > 00       int HH(ptr p, ptr i); > 01       int DD(ptr p) > 02       { > 03         int Halt_Status = HH(p, p); > 04         if (Halt_Status) > 05           HERE: goto HERE; > 06         return Halt_Status; > 07       } > > _DD() > [00001c22] 55         push ebp > [00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp > [00001c25] 51         push ecx > [00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08] > [00001c29] 50         push eax        ; push DD 1c22 > [00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08] > [00001c2d] 51         push ecx        ; push DD 1c22 > [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342   ; call HH > [00001c33] 83c408     add esp,+08 > [00001c36] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax > [00001c39] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 > [00001c3d] 7402       jz 00001c41 > [00001c3f] ebfe       jmp 00001c3f > [00001c41] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04] > [00001c44] 8be5       mov esp,ebp > [00001c46] 5d         pop ebp > [00001c47] c3         ret > Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47] > -- Paradoxes in the relation between Creator and creature. .