Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: moviePig Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 18:35:09 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 177 Message-ID: References: <9kednTImBeTyi977nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>

<20240517214352.0000779c@example.com>

<20240518200826.00006faf@example.com> <20240519162832.00005523@example.com> Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 00:35:11 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ba9ef2bda203b97a72c94505bb3af5e2"; logging-data="3788642"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+nv8j7dGotCm0tX88JLxVQoRTjGFCTdvc=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:uvlAgGpEfZNHqg/SCT3bkVo1obE= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <20240519162832.00005523@example.com> Bytes: 10255 On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote: > On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400 > moviePig wrote: > >> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote: >>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400 >>> moviePig wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>> In article , >>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700 >>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701 >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for >>>>>>>>>>> >sight-readers, >>>>>>>>>>> >that means it's a racist form of white supremacy. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> >(Because only white people can sight read perfectly or >>>>>>>>>>> >something.) >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black >>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of >>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days >>>>>>>>>>> are of Asian origin... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that >>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and >>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most >>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so >>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see >>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or >>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call >>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply >>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because >>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume >>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure >>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support >>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way >>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was >>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be >>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny >>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots, >>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be >>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that >>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most >>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it >>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and >>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are, >>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability >>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good >>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially >>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is >>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to >>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian. >>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available >>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras >>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to >>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively >>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring >>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to >>>>>>>>> play the music. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of >>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern >>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid >>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too >>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to >>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any >>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place). >>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action' >>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your >>>>>>>> view? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class >>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to >>>>>>> whitey. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than >>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised >>>>>>> you cheerlead for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and >>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on >>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how >>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that >>>>>>> needs 'fixing'. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.: >>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an >>>>>> artificially bifurcate society. >>>>> >>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial >>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they >>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance >>>>> groups. >>>>> >>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial >>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases, >>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired. >>>>> >>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a >>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'? >>>>> >>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations >>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job. >>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that >>>>> needs to be fixed? >>>> >>>> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given >>>> instance. >>>> >>> Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to >>> defend the indefensible. >> >> Let me help you out: The 'general policy' is to promote blacks, >> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to >> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such >> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust". >> > And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras? >> >>>> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals. >>>> >>> Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it >>> had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and >>> viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would >>> be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see >>> themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners >>> are walking away from extra income by not having more white players >>> - and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans. >> >> Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson. Today, teams make money by >> winning. >> > But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even > if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========