Path: ...!news.misty.com!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: wij Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2024 12:18:38 +0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 205 Message-ID: <385fc1f1467edc63a676d881f08f0bff52d5366c.camel@gmail.com> References: <8c92495d4433776d8ddc4706fb1de05b245f5829.camel@gmail.com> <400b355fb6d07340772b9308dece34b60fd6fcb4.camel@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2024 06:18:40 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a38a7976997cbd717b479f3898397b36"; logging-data="2599715"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18LsU/g73mXYFaNkFuSUb2O" User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.2 (3.50.2-1.fc39) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4e5AF2SPwvI50OpF5r26GoWSfts= In-Reply-To: Bytes: 10828 On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 15:01 -0500, olcott wrote: > On 6/7/2024 2:43 PM, wij wrote: > > On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 14:31 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > On 6/7/2024 1:57 PM, wij wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 13:41 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > On 6/7/2024 1:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > > > > > > On 6/7/24 2:02 PM, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > On 6/7/2024 12:50 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > > > > > > > [ Followup-To: set ] > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > In comp.theory olcott wrote: > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > [ .... ] > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > _DD() > > > > > > > > > [00001e12] 55=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 push ebp > > > > > > > > > [00001e13] 8bec=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov= =C2=A0 ebp,esp > > > > > > > > > [00001e15] 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 push ecx > > > > > > > > > [00001e16] 8b4508=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 eax,[= ebp+08] > > > > > > > > > [00001e19] 50=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 push eax=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; push DD > > > > > > > > > [00001e1a] 8b4d08=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 ecx,[= ebp+08] > > > > > > > > > [00001e1d] 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 push ecx=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; push DD > > > > > > > > > [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > A {correct simulation} means that each instruction of the > > > > > > > > > above x86 machine language of DD is correctly simulated > > > > > > > > > by HH and simulated in the correct order. > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > That's a bit of sudden and substantial change, isn't it?=C2= =A0 Less than a > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > days ago, you were defining a correct simulation as "1 to N > > > > > > > > instructions" > > > > > > > > simulated (without ever specifying what you meant by N).=C2= =A0 It seems that > > > > > > > > the simulation of exactly one instruction would have met yo= ur criterion. > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > That now seems to have changed. > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Because I am a relatively terrible writer I must constantly > > > > > > > improve my words on the basis of reviews. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Try to show how this DD correctly simulated by any HH ever > > > > > > > stops running without having its simulation aborted by HH. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > _DD() > > > > > > > [00001e12] 55=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= push ebp > > > > > > > [00001e13] 8bec=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0= ebp,esp > > > > > > > [00001e15] 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= push ecx > > > > > > > [00001e16] 8b4508=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 eax,[ebp+= 08] > > > > > > > [00001e19] 50=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= push eax=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; push DD > > > > > > > [00001e1a] 8b4d08=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 ecx,[ebp+= 08] > > > > > > > [00001e1d] 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= push ecx=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; push DD > > > > > > > [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > A {correct simulation} means that each instruction of the > > > > > > > above x86 machine language of DD is correctly simulated > > > > > > > by HH and simulated in the correct order. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Anyone claiming that HH should report on the behavior > > > > > > > of the directly executed DD(DD) is requiring a violation > > > > > > > of the above definition of correct simulation. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > And thus you admit that HH is not a Halt Decider, > > > > >=20 > > > > > More dishonest deflection. > > > > > The point that I made and you try to deflect using the strawman > > > > > deception as a fake rebuttal is the I just proved that DD is corr= ectly > > > > > simulated by HH and this is not the same behavior as the directly > > > > > executed DD(DD). > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > The Halting Problem asks for a program H (precisely a TM) that: > > > > IF H(D,D)=3D=3D1, THEN D(D) will return. > > > > ELSE If H(D,D)=3D=3D0, THEN D(D) will never return. > > > > ELSE HP is undecidable > > > >=20 > > > > You keep solving POOH !!! and made lots of lies. > > > >=20 > > > > Surrender to my GUR, son. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > If people are going to be dishonest about simple things > > > such as the actual behavior of actual x86 code where > > > they consistently deny verified facts > > >=20 > > > then we certainly cannot trust these people with more > > > difficult issues that require at least some slight degree > > > of judgment call. > > >=20 > > > When we can show that even in the halting problem HH > > > is only required to report on the behavior of DD correctly > > > simulated by HH these dishonest people merely use that > > > as another deflection point for their dishonesty. > > >=20 > > > The way around this that just worked is to stay diligently > > > focused one one single point until the dishonest people > > > finally admit that they have simply ignored all the proofs > > > for three solid years. > > >=20 > > > On 6/5/2024 10:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote: > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0>> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0>> THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0>> TO ME ABOUT UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0>> I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE THAT I AM INCORRECT > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> are correct, because I am not willing to put > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> that effort into your worthless claim. > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0> > > >=20 > > > Here is the earliest version of the proof (that everyone > > > has simply ignored for three solid years) that P correctly > > > simulated by H would never stop running unless aborted. > > >=20 > > > Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351947980_Halting_problem_un= decidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation > > > =C2=A0=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > The fact that the execution trace of P derived by the executed > > > H and the simulated H exactly matches the machine code of P > > > proves that each instruction of P was simulated correctly and > > > in the correct order this conclusively proves that P is correctly > > > simulated by both of these instances of H. > > >=20 > > > It has proved this since 2021-09-26 and everyone has made > > > sure to ignore this proof so that they can maintain their false > > > assumption. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Try to show how this DD correctly simulated by any HH ever > > > stops running without having its simulation aborted by HH. > > >=20 > > > _DD() > > > [00001e12] 55=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 push eb= p > > > [00001e13] 8bec=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 ebp,esp > > > [00001e15] 51=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 push ec= x > > > [00001e16] 8b4508=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 eax,[ebp+08] > > > [00001e19] 50=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 push ea= x=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; push DD > > > [00001e1a] 8b4d08=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mov=C2=A0 ecx,[ebp+08] ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========