Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jeroen Belleman Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Do you condemn Hamas? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 10:22:37 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 129 Message-ID: References: <7er86jt9l8ob35kvnhieb0ne3cn2e12n5f@4ax.com> <6664ba53$1$2363151$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <6mf96jh39h1i69efmbvgu4o8kvos2tggii@4ax.com> <66651654$0$2363138$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2024 10:20:29 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4d5bb2651e497ec06f1079f3dcd2e601"; logging-data="3506230"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Myyd7XUBcSLz/nl8DMp7i" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:+ba/vtf9LnI6ekH4jdYKIjV2qAE= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <66651654$0$2363138$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> Bytes: 6804 On 6/9/24 04:41, bitrex wrote: > On 6/8/2024 4:30 PM, john larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 16:08:51 -0400, bitrex wrote: >> >>> On 6/8/2024 3:55 PM, john larkin wrote: >>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 19:30:11 +0200, Jeroen Belleman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/8/24 16:45, john larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 09:54:42 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 10:43:15 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 01:37, Cursitor Doom wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 23:57:54 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/24 23:11, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/24 16:49, john larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, Hamas makes sense. They send Jews to hell because >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> are heretics, and send Muslims to heaven to be blessed >>>>>>>>>>>>> martyrs. So >>>>>>>>>>>>> for Hamas, killing is always win-win. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Some kind of sense, given that there is neither heaven, nor >>>>>>>>>>>> hell. >>>>>>>>>>>> Religion, islam in particular, is only pernicious brainwashing. >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no afterlife. There is only this life. Don't waste it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Learn how to do soul travel. It is the most important thing >>>>>>>>>>> to do >>>>>>>>>>> this lifetime. It will give you absolute proof there is life >>>>>>>>>>> past >>>>>>>>>>> this one, >>>>>>>>>>> and that you are immortal. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't know what soul travel is, but I'm sure there is no >>>>>>>>>> afterlife, >>>>>>>>>> just as there was no forelife. There is no soul. My existence >>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>>> result of an uninterrupted sequence of incredibly improbable >>>>>>>>>> events, >>>>>>>>>> going back billions of years into the past, and I will cease >>>>>>>>>> to exist, >>>>>>>>>> never to come back, >>>>>>>>>> when some essential part of my body fails. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> While I'm certainly not looking forward to dying, I'm not >>>>>>>>>> afraid of >>>>>>>>>> being dead. The need to believe in an afterlife is just >>>>>>>>>> another of >>>>>>>>>> those weird religious ideas. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not religious at all but am convinced there's an >>>>>>>>> after-life. >>>>>>>>> And that's not just so I can feel all warm and fuzzy. I >>>>>>>>> actually find >>>>>>>>> the prospect deeply concerning. I'd much rather be like you in >>>>>>>>> outlook! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How did you come to be convinced of the existence of an afterlife, >>>>>>>> and what kind of experience do you expect to have? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm afraid that's *way* too big and off-topic a subject for >>>>>>> expansion on >>>>>>> this forum! >>>>>> >>>>>> Designing electronics has obviously suggestions of quantum >>>>>> consciousness, and even Einstein thought that QM was spooky. >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't give up on miracles quite yet. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You have referred to quantum effects in the brain many >>>>> times. In as far as the brain is a chemical machine, and >>>>> that chemistry is basically a manifestation of quantum >>>>> mechanics, I agree. In practice, QM is just a level too >>>>> deep in the abstraction stack. Somehow I believe that >>>>> that is not how you see it. Would you elaborate? >>>>> >>>> >>>> DNA and RNA and other things aren't flat linear molecules as the >>>> cartoons suggest. They are twisted and tangled into writhing balls. So >>>> any sequence gets continuously and randomly rubbed against the rest of >>>> the string. That's a quantum cross-correlation machine. >>>> >>>>> Much of technology, electronics in particular, is a miracle, >>>>> though not in the mystical or religious sense. >>>> >>>> I like the Barrie Gilbert essay, "Where do little circuits come from?" >>>> >>>> They are all out there in the infinite solution space, and it's hard >>>> to explore an infinite space serially. >>>> >>>> There's nothing mystical about a universe that obviously works. >>>> >>> >>> The "RNA world" hypothesis is that RNA is a very special molecule, the >>> "killer app" that bootstrapped life. >> >> There are lots of people who want that to be true (never mind the >> details) because they don't want to admit that other things might be >> true. >> >> Nature has a rude habit of doing things that scientists didn't approve >> of. >> > > I tend to be of the opinion that actionable scientific theories of > either how to get life to bootstrap from non-life in a lab environment, > or how to make a machine emulate the significantly human qualities of a > mind, will remain frustratingly elusive for the foreseeable future. I'm with Dijkstra: Asking if a computer can think makes as much sense as asking whether a submarine can swim. Jeroen Belleman