Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.xs3.de!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Arkalen Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Evolution of consciousness Date: Thu, 2 May 2024 15:21:31 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 30 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="96646"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:Siv9tBtyNokhoEkeIxrFdoGfQa4= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 92CB6229782; Thu, 2 May 2024 09:21:33 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D76B229765 for ; Thu, 2 May 2024 09:21:31 -0400 (EDT) id 6B1C47D129; Thu, 2 May 2024 13:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D3B7D11E for ; Thu, 2 May 2024 13:21:33 +0000 (UTC) id 286C4DC01A9; Thu, 2 May 2024 15:21:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Thu, 02 May 2024 15:21:32 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19YQ2J0L8GKK7Oy7peFUpoGm09N+4+vlP0= Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3310 On 30/04/2024 01:36, Mark Isaak wrote: > My views on the evolution of consciousness are starting to gel. > > 1. Rudimentary nervous systems evolve. > 2. Brains evolve, capable of memory and of decisions other than reflex. > 3. Those decisions probably work better if the brain has a model of the > world to work with. So such a model evolves. > 4. Some creatures live socially. Their brains need a model of that > important aspect of the world: the fellow beings one lives with, > including how they think. > 5. So we've now got a model of minds. How about if we apply it to *our > own mind*? That might make our thinking about interactions with others' > minds more efficient. > 6. Viola! Consciousness! > > Does that make sense to people?  Is it time for me to write a book on > the subject? (Do you think publishers will want the book to be more than > 106 words long?) > > There's also the problem of testing it. I'm open to suggestions there, > too. Step 4 implies that the model of how we think need not agree with > how we think, much as the mental model of our world is flat, not > spherical. This has at least some confirmation (e.g., blindness to many > biases). More would be better. > Have you seen my thread on Michael Tomasello's "The Evolution of Agency"? I think the book would interest you. If you want more detail I have a post somewhere in that thread summarizing its arguments, I'd be happy to hear your take.