Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Harran Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Evolution of consciousness Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 11:18:37 +0100 Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 34 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="7612"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 To: talk-origins@moderators.individual.net Cancel-Lock: sha1:MtG1660RbvyLH8tFHY5nhrs94Lg= sha256:Y2pRUfdPZQm/3I6TArve43CTHryL+dR1Nnu0fkO2Mn0= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id B50FB22976C; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 06:18:30 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 784AE229758 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 06:18:28 -0400 (EDT) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.97) for talk-origins@moderators.individual.net with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1s1kZc-000000013PF-13r4; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:18:56 +0200 by outpost.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.97) for talk-origins@moderators.individual.net with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1s1kZM-00000002Sao-0ekG; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:18:40 +0200 by relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.97) for talk-origins@moderators.individual.net with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1s1kZM-00000001vV3-0N28; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:18:40 +0200 for talk-origins@moderators.individual.net with local-bsmtp (envelope-from ) id 1s1kZK-00000003ofe-3oCc; Tue, 30 Apr 2024 12:18:39 +0200 X-Path: individual.net!not-for-mail X-Orig-X-Trace: individual.net 7dtyR7X2xzkOQZa6mBpwfgRXTQ0F/sRu5MjFFfkwcu6BdpA78B X-Originating-IP: 130.133.4.5 X-ZEDAT-Hint: RO Bytes: 4126 On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:36:45 -0700, Mark Isaak wrote: >My views on the evolution of consciousness are starting to gel. > >1. Rudimentary nervous systems evolve. >2. Brains evolve, capable of memory and of decisions other than reflex. >3. Those decisions probably work better if the brain has a model of the >world to work with. So such a model evolves. >4. Some creatures live socially. Their brains need a model of that >important aspect of the world: the fellow beings one lives with, >including how they think. >5. So we've now got a model of minds. How about if we apply it to *our >own mind*? That might make our thinking about interactions with others' >minds more efficient. >6. Viola! Consciousness! > >Does that make sense to people? Is it time for me to write a book on >the subject? (Do you think publishers will want the book to be more than >106 words long?) Michael Tomasello has already done a lot of the work for you and it's a bit more than 106 words. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Evolution-Agency-Behavioral-Organization-Lizards-ebook/dp/B09N6M6HDY/ref=sr_1_1 > >There's also the problem of testing it. I'm open to suggestions there, >too. Step 4 implies that the model of how we think need not agree with >how we think, much as the mental model of our world is flat, not >spherical. This has at least some confirmation (e.g., blindness to many >biases). More would be better.