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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jeff Layman Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: British (european?) kitchen counter electric outlets Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 19:10:40 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 109 Message-ID: References: <7bgc6jhk2ae8lp8g3si4loehv968oorocs@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="70ff15e958dfdb6439de2b3afa867767"; logging-data="295894"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+x7OVyqsYgxHC328l3sES880fix8GgPYc=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:rcXP1UNOtNtvXW4oY15kXq8wrYM= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-GB Bytes: 6814 On 10/06/2024 15:34, john larkin wrote: > On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:00:18 +0100, Jeff Layman > wrote: > >> On 10/06/2024 01:04, john larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 23:38:28 +0100, TTman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/06/2024 23:53, Don Y wrote: >>>>> In the US, we are required (new construction) to have two dedicated 20A >>>>> (2400W) circuits to service countertop "small appliances".  In addition, >>>>> there is also a requirement for a relatively tight spacing between >>>>> (duplex) receptacles -- the intent to keep cords short (IIRC, < 4ft... >>>>> we settled on 3'). >>>>> >>>>> SWMBO was watching a britcom and commented at how few receptacles/outlets >>>>> were in evidence to serve the countertop.  Granted, each outlet is rated a >>>>> fair bit higher than US (each US outlet being 2400W -- the full load rating >>>>> of the branch circuit supporting it).  But, still, how do you address >>>>> NUMBERS of appliances in use, concurrently -- where each appliance will >>>>> likely draw only a fraction of the rated branch circuit's current so >>>>> total load isn't an issue? >>>>> >>>>> E.g., we (presently) have a ~1KW microwave oven and a ~1KW toaster as >>>>> ever-present loads.  To that, it is not uncommon to add an electric >>>>> wok, hand or stand mixer, pizzelle iron, etc.  The abundance of >>>>> outlets makes it easy to add appliances as well as providing flexibility >>>>> over where they can be put into use. >>>>> >>>> We mostly fit double outlet sockets 20-30 cm above worktops on the wall. >>>> Each socket ( there can be several spread around the kitchen area) can >>>> supply ( in theory) 30 Amps @ 230V. Back at the main fusebox, there will >>>> be a 30 Amp MCB( miniature contact breaker). All the sockets are wired >>>> in a 'ring main' format to prevent excessive volt drops at any outlet. A >>>> kettle will have a typical power rating of 3kW so ~13 Amps draw. Other >>>> main appliances - dish washer/washing machine/oven etc mostly have thier >>>> own separate supplies. Ovens will be wired using 6mm >>>> cable.Microwave/toaster coffe maker will be plugged itto a wall socket >>>> in the kitchen. Plugs will be fitted with either 3A/5A or 13A fuses >>>> depending. >>> >>> Our serious heat loads (house central heat, fireplace, water heater, >>> cooktop, clothes dryer) are natural gas. It's simple and very >>> reliable. Do brits commonly use gas at home? >> >> Much more so than electricity for heating as it's much cheaper - about a >> third to one quarter of the cost. >> >> There is a move here to get people to install air-sourced heat pumps >> instead which use electricity and are said to provide about the same >> heating as gas for a similar cost as they output about 3 - 4kWh of heat >> for every 1kWh of electricity they consume (ground-sourced heat pumps >> are more efficient but fiendishly expensive and need a lot of land). All >> this is to support the use of renewable energy from solar or wind power. >> What is often not made clear is that current heating systems will have >> to be replaced almost entirely as ASHP provide heated water at a lower >> temperature than the currently-used gas or oil burners do. This >> necessitates using much bigger radiators and/or installing underfloor >> water heating. And to be added to that is the need for better insulation >> so that heat loss is reduced. >> >>> How much do you pay for electricity in a typical month? >> >> How long is a piece of string? It will depend on personal preferences, >> weather conditions, how efficient the heating system is (including >> losses), etc. We have a "price cap" in the UK which - sort of - controls >> the prices of gas and electricity. From >> : "From 1 July until 30 >> September, gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), >> and electricity at 22.36p per kWh". It would be possible to find (much) >> lower prices than those, depending on the tariff used from the company >> who supplies the power. >> >> I'm not sure if you can see that BBC page in the USA, but if so there's >> a lot more information there. > > I wonder how gas can be rated in KWh. That must asssume some sort of > gas-to-electricity converter machine. There's no conversion machine. Here is the explanation from a gas bill last year: "Your gas meter measures usage in units, but like all suppliers, we have to do a bit of maths to turn it into kWh. Here's how it works: GAS UNITS USED X CALORIFIC VALUE (39.1) X VOLUME CORRECTION (1.02264) ÷ 3.6" That particular month, I used 146 units according to the gas meter, so the calculation was: 146 x 39.1 x 1.02244 / 3.6 = 1621.6 (rounded to 1622kWh) The caloric value and volume correction varies slightly depending on the source of the natural gas. Note that for modern gas meters, 1 unit = 1 cubic metre. > The easy way would be to compare direct gas heating with resistive > electric heating, both of which are crazy inefficient. ??? Forgetting for the moment the source of the electricity, resistive electric heating is 100% efficient! > There is a movement here to eliminate gas to Save The Earth. Berkeley > CA forbids running gas to new-construction homes. I'm sure that will > keep Climate Change from affecting Berkeley. Similar here. There's going to be a ban on gas heaters for new homes from 2025 (probably?). See -- Jeff