Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!inka.de!mips.inka.de!.POSTED.localhost!not-for-mail From: Christian Weisgerber Newsgroups: sci.lang Subject: Re: This must be Bulgarian (audiobook?) -- Russian title is: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=93=D1=91=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D1=8C=2C?= =?UTF-8?Q?_=D0=95=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=80=2C?= =?UTF-8?Q?_=D0=91=D0=B0=D1=85?= Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 18:17:07 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 18:17:07 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: lorvorc.mips.inka.de; posting-host="localhost:::1"; logging-data="19267"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@mips.inka.de" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (FreeBSD) Bytes: 2807 Lines: 44 On 2024-05-18, Ross Clark wrote: > I'm remembering, without consulting any books, but I think there is no > actual palatalization before (historic) a,o,u, as one might expect. > The Russian я following palatalized consonant comes from the front nasal > vowel *ę; There are other sources of я. Just looking at two feminines on -я: неделя ‘week’ < PSl. *neděľa заря ‘dawn, dusk’ < PSl. *zořa > and unless I'm mistaken ю only represents /ju/ in native > Slavic words любить ‘to love’ < PSl. *ľubiti Proto-Slavic already had a number of palatalized consonants, most easily traceable ň, ľ, ř. Those later merged with the newly palatalized consonants before front vowels. So there are clearly native examples of Cʲa and Cʲu. The lack of Cʲo is curious. Leaving aside the later development of ё, Russian morphology shows an alternation between Cʲe and Co. I don't know what to make of that. Huh, it seems to have been as simple as fronting o > e after palatal consonants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_language#Alternations >> This could be related to the fact that the Russian >> vowels have fronted allophones after (ё) or between (ю) palatalized >> consonants. > > Yes, this is a better reason for using ё and ю. It also accounts for the > Bulgarians using ьо /jo/. (Found another example: шофьор 'driver'.) You keep writing /jo/, but there is no /j/. Шофьор is /ʃoˈfʲɔr/. When an actual /j/ is needed, Bulgarian resorts to й: Jörg Haider > Йорг Хайдер yo-yo > йо-йо Russian also tends to use йо over ё in such contexts. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de