Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!paganini.bofh.team!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: RonO Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Science has a news article up about "living fossils" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:17:23 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 25 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="17039"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:25s/ynbX2ZppPgryE8JvD+RcUK8= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 4FBB822976C; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 19:13:55 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31528229758 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 19:13:53 -0400 (EDT) id F1B985DCE2; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 23:17:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCD9D5DC6E for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 23:17:23 +0000 (UTC) id 13F9FDC01BA; Tue, 12 Mar 2024 00:17:21 +0100 (CET) Content-Language: en-US X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1/BwyJQIHJQPZdgDTo7jQ8e44xaP+0Rtew= Bytes: 2954 https://www.science.org/content/article/these-gars-are-ultimate-living-fossils Open access article: https://academic.oup.com/evolut/advance-article/doi/10.1093/evolut/qpae028/7615529?login=false These researchers looked at Gar, but it also applies to sturgeons. These two bony fish lineages seem to have a very slow rate of molecular evolution. The changes in their DNA accumulate so slowly that two lineages separated for over 100 million years can still form fertile hybrids. 3 million years is pushing it for species like lions and tigers that can still form hybrids, but the hybrids are sterile. Bonobos and chimps are around 3 million years divergent and can still form fertile hybrids, but the claim is that these fish evolve orders of magnitude more slowly than mammals. The Science news article claims that mammals accumulate 0.02 mutations per site per million years, while these fish averaged only 0.00009 mutations per million years. For the 1100 coding exons that they looked at for this study these fish evolve much more slowly than mammals. The news article notes that other "living fossils" such as coelacanths (0.0005) evolve faster, but slower than amphibians (0.007). It sounds like terrestrial animals evolve faster than fish. Ron Okimoto