Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Ron Dean Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Lincoln's Letter to the Editor of the N,Y, Tribune Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 19:41:15 -0400 Organization: Public Usenet Newsgroup Access Lines: 105 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: <2e5n3j1u9a0pdcmpd4m78l2dssq3kns552@4ax.com> <7Ya3O.2266$gKW1.1925@fx13.iad> <%Lq3O.283$8CY1.60@fx37.iad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="59944"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 13.4; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.2 To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id A644D229870; Wed, 22 May 2024 19:41:00 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9279F22986E for ; Wed, 22 May 2024 19:40:58 -0400 (EDT) id 175AA7D11E; Wed, 22 May 2024 23:41:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEA07D009 for ; Wed, 22 May 2024 23:41:17 +0000 (UTC) by nntpmail01.iad.omicronmedia.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37982E1455 for ; Wed, 22 May 2024 23:41:16 +0000 (UTC) id 0575122801CD; Wed, 22 May 2024 23:41:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Path: fx13.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail In-Reply-To: X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@newsgroups-download.com X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 23:41:15 UTC Bytes: 8201 John Harshman wrote: > On 5/22/24 11:24 AM, Ron Dean wrote: >> Chris Thompson wrote: >>> Ron Dean wrote: >>>> >>>> I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it >>>> was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he wrote to >>>> the editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the Union. It was >>>> the South's fear that Lincoln would free the slaves, but it appears, >>>> based on the letter he wrote  to the editor of the New York >>>> newspaper, that this was a misjudgement by the South of Lincoln and >>>> his objective. >>>> >>>> The institution had existed f0r over 2 centuries in the South, the >>>> question is would there have >>>> been war had the South _n0t_ succeeded? The succession of Carolina >>>> followed by the attack on Ft. Sumter started the Civil War. >>>> >>>> I had read, believed and defended the opinion that unfair tariffs >>>> imposed on the South was the main cause of the war, but this was >>>> proven wrong, in spite of the cites on the net advocating this fraud. >>>> >>>> Lincoln's Letter to the editor of the New York Newspaper was written >>>> 1n August 22, 1862,  ab0ut a year and a half after the start of the >>>> War between the States: >>>> >>>> Picture >>>> Mathew Brady Photographs of Civil War-Era Personalities and Scenes, >>>> National Archives and Records Administration >>>> Hon. Horace Greely: Executive Mansion, >>>> Dear Sir Washington, August 22, 1862. >>>> >>>> I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the >>>> New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions >>>> of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, >>>> controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may >>>> believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against >>>> them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial >>>> tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have >>>> always supposed to be right. >>>> As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not >>>> meant to leave any one in doubt. >>>> I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the >>>> Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the >>>> nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those >>>> who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time >>>> save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would >>>> not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy >>>> slavery, I do not agree with them. >>>> _My_paramount_object_in_this_struggle_is_to_ save_ the_ Union_, and >>>> is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the >>>> Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save >>>> it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it >>>> by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What >>>> I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it >>>> helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do >>>> not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less >>>> whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I >>>> shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the >>>> cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I >>>> shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. >>>> I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; >>>> and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that >>>> all men every where could be free. Yours, >>>> A. LINCOLN >>>> >>>> http://lincolnandemancipation.weebly.com/letter-to-horace-greeley-1862.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> This really isn't difficult. I fail to see how you have so many >>> problems with it. >>> >>> Yes, Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union. >>> Why did the Union need preserving? >>> Because slave states seceded. (Not "succeeded".) >>> Why did those states secede? >>> Slavery. >>> Don't take my word for it. >>> Look up the Articles of Secession. Read the Cornerstone speech. >>> It's all written down. >>> >> You are right. This was the South's reason for the secession, but >> secession was due to a misunderstanding of Lincoln's objective. > > It was not a misunderstanding. This too has been explained to you. But > at least you're now off the tariff thing. Progress. > >> This based upon Lincoln's expressed words as to his objective in his >> letter almost 2 years after the start of the war. But maybe this was >> his immediate objective not his ultimate purpose. But would this not >> be disingenuous? > > No. It's just Lincoln expressing his immediate priorities. Preserving > the Union took priority over freeing the slaves. So? > >> This is not to say that Lincoln approved slavery, he preferred freedom >> for all people. Did you bother to read the Letter to to the editor by >> Lincoln? > > Do you ever bother to read anything? > In other words NO,