Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: FPP Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: 5th Circuit Strikes Down Bump Stock Ban Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 21:21:12 -0400 Organization: Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh Wgah'nagl Fhtagn. Lines: 158 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: fredp1571@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 03:21:13 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="135701bad7255964217cc25f17b69a9f"; logging-data="2981112"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/giyn6Xf6l8Lm89PZjUR+7" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:EgvkZ6pVXvd+uKNsrDEStskme50= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 9113 On 6/19/24 9:10 PM, shawn wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:28:26 -0700, BTR1701 wrote: > >> In article , >> moviePig wrote: >> >>> On 6/19/2024 3:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>> In article , >>>> moviePig wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:38 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 9:47 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>>> moviePig wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 5:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In article , FPP >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 8:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> In article >>>>>>>>>>>> <17d9412e82a8a311$8843$3053472$46d50c60@news.newsdemon.com>, >>>>>>>>>>>> trotsky wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 11:46 AM, moviePig wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 4:20 AM, trotsky wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/14/24 5:47 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Federal Firearms Act of 1934 >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From wiki: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current National Firearms Act (NFA) defines a number of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> known as NFA firearms and include the following: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Machine guns: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the possession or under the control of a person."[10] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, bump-stocks are patently a "workaround" for a law whose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent is patently obvious. Not exactly a triumph of sanity. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "A work around" is accurate. And the spirit of the law is far more >>>>>>>>>>>>> important, obviously, than the letter of the law >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, cool! I see Hutt the Fuck-Up Fairy has visited us again! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No, Hutt, you're unsurprisingly about as absolutely wrong as you >>>>>>>>>>>> can be yet again. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The letter of the law is obviously paramount in the context of >>>>>>>>>>>> jurisprudential determination as evidenced by the 1000-page statutes >>>>>>>>>>>> we have coming out of Congress, millions of pages of administrative >>>>>>>>>>>> regulations, and the multi-page click-thrus of tiny and near- >>>>>>>>>>>> hieroglyphic legalese that you have to agree to just to use a >>>>>>>>>>>> piece of software. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If all we needed to concern ourselves with was a law's "spirit", >>>>>>>>>>>> then none of that would be necessary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd elaborate further but I don't have the time or the crayons to >>>>>>>>>>>> explain it to you. Jeezus, Hutt, if I wanted to kill myself, I'd >>>>>>>>>>>> climb your ego and jump to your IQ. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And how does using a bump stock differ from a fully automatic machine >>>>>>>>>>> gun? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With a bump stock, for every round fired, a separate trigger pull >>>>>>>>>> occurs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With a machine gun, one one trigger pull is required to fire multiple >>>>>>>>>> rounds. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, the rate of fire of a bump stock-equipped rifle is significantly >>>>>>>>>> slower than a rifle firing on full-auto. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, this 15-sec. video is a lie? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brrecvXhRVc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know what you're talking about. You can clearly see the bump >>>>>>>> device using the recoil (and Newton's Third Law) to reset the trigger >>>>>>>> after every round. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I'm seeing is a NOT "significantly slower" rate of fire. >>>>>> >>>>>> The bump device I used produce a fast rate of fire but not as fast as >>>>>> full-auto rifle. Perhaps this is a different model that works more >>>>>> efficiently. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regardless, the law passed by Congress did not differentiate "machine >>>>>> gun" from other guns by how fast it shoots, so the rate of fire is >>>>>> actually irrelevant to the issue. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we've already established that a determined judiciary can do an >>>>> end-run around even the clearest legislative intent. >>>> >>>> They didn't end-run anything. They only reiterated-- since our >>>> government seems to have lost its way and needs a reminder-- that >>>> Congress is the only body granted the authority by the Constitution to >>>> legislate in this country, not administrative agencies like BATF, and if >>>> Congress wants to change the definition of "machine gun" to incorporate >>>> bump stocks into it, it can do so at any time. However, BATF has no >>>> authority to do it for them. >>> >>> Machine gun: >>> >>> "...any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily >>> restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual >>> reloading, by a single function of the trigger." >>> >>> Now, tell me again how either gun in my video doesn't qualify... >> >> Because with the bump stock, it's only firing one shot per pull of the >> trigger. The trigger is just being pulled repeatedly really fast as a >> result of rebounding recoil caused by the bump stock. The bumper rocks >> the rifle back and forth against the shooter's trigger finger, causing a >> separate trigger pull each time. The statute you quoted above clearly >> says "by a SINGLE function of the trigger". If you shoot 100 rounds with >> a bump stock, you've got 100 functions of the trigger, not a single >> function of the trigger. > > Yes, you are definitely technically correct. (The best kind.) That > said you can see why people consider the bump stock to be the > equivalent of turning a weapon into an equal to a machine gun. It > isn't a machine gun but it ends throwing lead down field much like > one. I think eventually the law will be updated to include bump stocks > but who knows how long that will take. As no one who was involved in > writing the original act likely foresaw the possibility of a bump > stock. > Both still require the same action. A single trigger pull, with constant pressure. The law doesn't specify anything more than "a single function of the trigger." How are either different? -- On May 30, 2024 Donald J. Trump was unanimously convicted on 34 felony counts in New York City... so I took this picture in my side yard. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0 "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC Bible 25B.G. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0