Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Rhino Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Superman (1978) John Williams' score Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 17:32:53 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 94 Message-ID: <20240626173253.0000700a@example.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:32:54 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c5c38e951823e25b1fe486c91fd1b677"; logging-data="2415832"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18fyhSKlsSfRTBVVaw43Do6x9dIDDye0z4=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:QGB/nuK7otQycwx5rwyD0Kkt5Z0= X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.41; x86_64-w64-mingw32) X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 240626-2, 6/26/2024), Outbound message Bytes: 5551 On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:57:48 -0000 (UTC) "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: > BTR1701 wrote: > >"Adam H. Kerman" wrote: > > >>Throughout June, TCM was playing various movies to celebrate the > >>scores of Hollywood's best-known composers. To honor John Williams, > >>they chose to play Superman. In the host's comments, it was new > >>information to me that Jerry Goldsmith had turned the movie down as > >>he was scoring something else, although you'd think the guy who > >>scored Chinatown over a weekend after the earlier composer was > >>fired would been able to do it, just by never sleeping for two > >>months. > > >>It's a great score, but it's always always always annoyed me that > >>you cannot hear the score properly over the opening titles because > >>of all the whooshing noises as each title flies by. I've always > >>hated that. Salkind hired the guy who had just received an Oscar > >>for Jaws, so I think the audience really wants to hear the music. > > >>Yes, I know the main theme is derivative (of previous works of his > >>own, plus the usual romantic composers that movie music is supposed > >>to sound like), but the first four notes of that one major theme in > >>the music conveys such a sense of joy and optimism, it's just > >>perfect. > > >So much of the criticism many film composers have of "being > >derivative" is wholly undeserved. Almost every time it's done > >specifically and intentionally by the composer on orders from the > >director. > > >For example, the opening scene of STAR WARS, with the huge Imperial > >Star Destroyer rumbling in overhead, almost endlessly. People say > >Williams just lifted that part of the score from Holst's "Mars" from > >"The Planets", but the reality is that Lucas actually temp-tracked > >that scene with Mars and when Williams came in to score it, Lucas > >kept sending him notes saying, "Make it sound more like Mars. I > >really like the sound of Mars there." So Williams basically mimicked > >Holst's piece as close as he could without risking a copyright > >violation. > > >So now all these years later, we have lackbrains like Hutt claiming > >Williams all but plagiarized Mars in STAR WARS. > > >The same is true for so many composers whose creativity is leashed > >by whatever the director wants, not what they can actually produce. > > But from what I've read about Spielberg, he loved movie scores and as > a surrogate audience member, he knew what movie soundtracks were > supposed to sound like. > > Even if derivative, Williams's job was to make it sound right and work > incidentally to the scene. Generally, he succeeds enormously. > > >>One of the pieces I really like is "Welcome to Krypton" (I really > >>have no idea what it's called), slightly reminiscent of Aaron > >>Copland and early Charles Ives. > > >1M1 Prelude / 1M1A The Planet Krypton > > Fair enough; nice nostalgic American music works great > > >>Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor isn't the way I ever pictured Lex Luthor > >>but he made it work. Of course it would have been better to create > >>an all-new character for the movie. Why was Valerie Perrine a > >>henchwoman? Yes, she got to distract Major Nelson in that one scene > >> > > >Which doesn't age well, as a bunch of soldiers surround a pretty > >girl passed out on the side of the road and instead of summoning > >medical help, they all giggle and start planning on how they're > >going to sexually assault her. > > Was much of the movie's broader humor funny at the time? Lex's crimes > were pretty damn horrific, intending to kill 10s of millions. I > suppose he's killed more than that at other times. Do we need a scene > to lighten the moment to use a sexy female "victim" to distract idiot > naval officers and sailors mismanaging their duties? Or the gag with > Otis failing to input the coordinates Lex gave him? > > The subtler humor worked. I remember the audience's laughter when > Clark couldn't find a phone booth to change into costume in. > > Explain that gag to kids today. What's a phone booth? What's a pay > phone? What's a phone? Kids today will have no problem knowing what a phone is. They WILL wonder why he doesn't just reach into his pocket to get his phone out, just like they do. -- Rhino