Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:55:24 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Langevin's paradox again Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity References: <9oTvw4-YSIPb1dubtdBwcc_MeX8@jntp> <4O9Y8U3gtfBKakbkPS0LmREorbI@jntp> Content-Language: pl From: Maciej Wozniak In-Reply-To: <4O9Y8U3gtfBKakbkPS0LmREorbI@jntp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 108 Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!tr2.iad1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr2.eu1.usenetexpress.com!news.newsdemon.com!not-for-mail Nntp-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2024 18:55:24 +0000 X-Received-Bytes: 5583 X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsdemon.com Organization: NewsDemon - www.newsdemon.com Message-Id: <17e13d798bdb4847$35856$505064$c2265aab@news.newsdemon.com> Bytes: 5989 W dniu 11.07.2024 o 20:29, Richard Hachel pisze: > Le 11/07/2024 à 16:09, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) a écrit : >> >>   From the perspective of the twin chilling back on Earth, the >>   traveling twin is getting the time dilation treatment the whole time, >>   so he ages way less. That part's a no-brainer. But now let's flip >>   the script and look at it /from the traveling twin's point of view/: >> >>   When the traveling twin bounces from Earth (I'm assuming >>   constant velocity for simplicity), time on Earth starts slowing >>   down for them. Not like, looking through a telescope slow, >>   but like, the time between two moments on Earth that line up >>   with a single second on the spaceship is actually less than a >>   second. Trippy, right? >>   Then when the traveling twin boomerangs back to Earth, time is >>   still dragging for them. That's the time dilation working its >>   magic - independent of the direction of the movement. >> >>   So the traveling twin should be thinking his Earth-bound bro is >>   aging slower. But somehow, it's the opposite - the Earth twin is >>   looking way more mature. What gives? Could it have something to do >>   with that quick boost in the middle to flip the script and head back? >> >>   This is the question that's been stumping everyone, but get >>   this - I found the answer last year in some old Einstein text. >> Here's how it breaks down: >> >>   The traveler thinks of himself as stationary and unaccelerated. But >>   how does he keep that mindset when the engines are blasting during >>   the turnaround? It's like there's a uniform gravitational field >>   filling the whole space - the engines are just keeping the ship from >>   falling in it, so it stays at rest! >>   So if the traveler sees himself as at rest during that acceleration, >>   a uniform gravitational field is filling the whole space for him. >> >>   In this field, the traveler and Earth twin are at totally different >>   potentials (and the farther apart, the bigger the difference). >>   This potential gap makes time on Earth zoom by so fast, it more >>   than makes up for the slowdown on the outbound and return legs! >> >>   And that's why, /also from the traveler's point of view/, more time > > But no!!! > > Damn, what are you all doing on sci.physics.relativity talking loads of > bullshit? > > The problem is not there at all, and here is one (which seems to come > from Germany) who didn't understand anything more. > > Damn it! Breathe in, breathe out! > > This is not AT ALL what is happening. The U-turn, absolutely nothing > happens on TIMES, but only on spaces (and only in Stella's frame of > reference). > > Breathe in, breathe out! > > All this is the fault of this idiot Python, who has been completely > ruining the scientific forums for thirty years by spitting on posters as > soon as he sees one that does not seem to him to be in conformity. > > And we end up with posts as stupid as this one. > > I repeat, during the U-turn, nothing happens at all on the TIME side. > > For Terrence to stay on earth, he observed in his ultra-powerful > telescope Stella traveling an immense semi-circle at the tangential > speed of 0.8c, and returning to earth. > > We admit that the rocket can withstand these terrible accelerations, > and Terrence observes that the U-turn takes place in 40 hours. > > For Stella, the clean time is shorter, only 24 hours. > > The effect is absolute. > > Once this is understood, we see that it all fits together very well, and > that there is no need to imagine useless unicorns. > > But what happens during this U-turn for Terrence? > He ages by 40 hours, and observes that his sister ages by 24 hours > between the moment she begins the U-turn, and the moment she completes > her U-turn. > > FOR Stella, it's exactly the same thing, when she begins her U-turn, her > clock marks 9 years, and she sees over there (direct-live) Terrence's > clock marks three years. > > When she finishes her U-turn, she has aged 24 hours, and she sees the > earth clock which still marks three years (plus 40 hours). > > Nothing special happens. > > And those who say that something is happening (like gap-time) are morons > who don't understand the theory. > > Being an idiot who doesn't understand doesn't matter, personally I > remained an idiot for decades before I got the hang of it and was able > to write an SR of perfect logic and perfect beauty. And in the meantime in the real world, improper clocks keep measuring improper t'=t in improper seconds. Common sense was warning your idiot guru.