Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Anyone that disagrees with this is not telling the truth --- V5
 --- Professor Sipser
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 11:28:50 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <vanj82$3hqfi$1@dont-email.me>
References: <va104l$376ed$4@dont-email.me> <va3f7o$3ipp3$1@dont-email.me>
 <729cc551062c13875686d266a5453a488058e81c@i2pn2.org>
 <va3kac$3nd5c$1@dont-email.me>
 <148bf4dd91f32379a6d81a621fb7ec3fc1e00db0@i2pn2.org>
 <va3lai$3nd5c$2@dont-email.me> <va46sd$3pr24$1@dont-email.me>
 <va4mle$3s0hu$1@dont-email.me>
 <5591ff08ed8f7b4bdf33813681e156b775efe0ec@i2pn2.org>
 <va63uu$2fo9$1@dont-email.me>
 <b0a86b6a1343ebb5f9112ae757768a7cbbc770b2@i2pn2.org>
 <va65r8$6ht7$1@dont-email.me>
 <26fadbf7b8cb5f93dbe18bffeff6e959251f9892@i2pn2.org>
 <va6b4n$7boc$1@dont-email.me>
 <b19eb2a29dacfa67f2f9ced0d03234e980f4c985@i2pn2.org>
 <va6edj$8f0p$1@dont-email.me> <vak2dd$2lg1o$1@paganini.bofh.team>
 <vakkha$30fkq$1@dont-email.me> <vamovj$3dl83$1@dont-email.me>
 <van3tu$3f6c0$4@dont-email.me> <van5gk$3fgd3$1@dont-email.me>
 <van67i$3foem$1@dont-email.me> <vancp0$3g0l9$1@dont-email.me>
 <vandln$3gtu6$1@dont-email.me> <vanetd$3grf3$4@dont-email.me>
 <vanf3q$3h6ek$1@dont-email.me> <vanitb$3hh2l$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:28:51 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fac62f6084ae4030e082c32c7cff718b";
	logging-data="3729906"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/YuABXxcyDodNShOgpwW57"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6jhDC7c+GoFDygPzbW3PPtC7gPQ=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vanitb$3hh2l$2@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 8837

On 8/28/2024 11:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 28.aug.2024 om 17:18 schreef olcott:
>> On 8/28/2024 10:14 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 16:53 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 8/28/2024 9:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 14:46 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 8/28/2024 7:34 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 14:07 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 8/28/2024 4:00 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Op 27.aug.2024 om 15:32 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D *would 
>>>>>>>>>> never*
>>>>>>>>>>      *stop running unless aborted* then
>>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HHH is only required to correctly predict whether or not DDD
>>>>>>>>>> *would never stop running unless aborted*
>>>>>>>>> And since DDD is calling an HHH that is programmed to detect 
>>>>>>>>> the 'special condition', so that it aborts and halts, DDD halts 
>>>>>>>>> as well and 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *THIS IS YOUR REASONING*
>>>>>>>> If you are hungry and never eat you will remain hungry.
>>>>>>>> You are hungry and eat becoming no longer hungry.
>>>>>>>> *This proves that you never needed to eat*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, apparently, your understanding of logic English is very poor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HHH simulates DDD until it has inductive evidence that
>>>>>> in the purely hypothetical case where a different HHH
>>>>>> would never abort its emulation of DDD that DDD would
>>>>>> never terminate normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently you still do not understand that HHH should process its 
>>>>> input, not your dreams of a pure hypothetical non-input.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>> {
>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>    return;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> In other words you are saying that HHH must report that
>>>> infinite loops halt even though halting is reaching a
>>>> final halt state and infinite loops cannot possibly reach
>>>> a final halt state.
>>>>
>>>> Your replies have stepped over the line of an honest dialogue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, you are dishonest by putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
>>>
>>> I said HHH should report that a *halting* program halt.
>>> You make it that I said that HHH must report that *infinite loops* halt.
>>
>> HHH must report on what the behavior of its input
>> WOULD BE if it never aborted it emulation.
> 
> No, that is your error. 

Read the specs a few more hundred times until
you notice exactly what the words actually say.

<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*
     *would never stop running unless aborted*


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer