Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Cryptoengineer Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom Subject: Re: Readercon code of conduct Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 21:28:11 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 116 Message-ID: References: <20240527172850.1573690f03e57af47ef1906f@127.0.0.1> <81aeb197-d389-656f-de9a-81b482f5764c@example.net> <58f87f77-3bb8-bc47-8e23-360646a3adef@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 23:28:11 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="adb9ac5b20701f291af005d8706e7aff"; logging-data="560965"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/BfSuYB4CIeJz2hywpF1IKhxz5H4qd3N4=" User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad) Cancel-Lock: sha1:OLKMTYq07IPMYDZvTgi6+GrtfKo= sha1:QG1I62683P7TsFCZpAwtpzAmUq0= Bytes: 5281 D wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: > >> On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Bernard Peek  wrote: >>>>>>> The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a >>>>>>> mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if >>>>>>> it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty >>>>>>> feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times >>>>>>> measured in hours. >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the big problems preventing early measures from being >>>>>> taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime. >>>>>> The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no >>>>>> human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible >>>>>> to ignore.  The rest of the world needs to recognize that >>>>>> totalitarian despots lie. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse >>>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have. >>>>> >>>>> The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some >>>>> recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing. >>>>> >>>>> But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing >>>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed >>>>> completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =) >>>> >>>> I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info) >>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ >>>> >>>> Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million >>>> US      3,642 >>>> >>>> But Sweden is hardly the best. >>>> >>>> France:  2,556 (fierce lockdown there) >>>> Germany: 2,182 (ditto) >>>> Ireland: 1,891 >>>> Norway:  1,024 >>>> >>>> nor is the US the worst: >>>> Bulgaria: 5,661 >>>> Hungary:  5,106 >>>> >>>> Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various >>>> strategies, what worked, what didn't. >>>> >>>> If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the >>>> US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have >>>> double the death rate of Norway? >>>> >>>> >>>> pt >>> >>> Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk. >> >> There's a venerable method of evading discussion >> of a questionable Internet claim by refusing >> discussion unless some form of evidence which is >> thought difficult to obtain is first supplied. >> >> I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death >> rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better? >> >> At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain >> excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate: >> >> https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid >> >> On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions', >> and you can compare countries against each other. >> >> I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's >> here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc >> >> Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared >> to Norway, in the early part of the pandemic. Norway >> has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly >> closely. >> >> So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden >> that saved so many lives? >> >> Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden >> has a lot more excess deaths than the US. >> >> pt > > Let me show you this instead... > > https://www.europaportalen.se/2023/03/sverige-hade-lagsta-overdodligheten-under-coronapandemin-i-eu > > The graph shows the percentage change between the average number of deaths > per year for 2017-2019 and the average for 2020-2022. Again, I ask you, what did Norway do right, and Sweden do wrong, to have more than twice the deaths per,population? Pt