Path: ...!local-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:32:37 +0000 From: John Larkin Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Heating for fusion, Why toast plasma when you can microwave it? Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 08:32:44 -0700 Organization: highland technology Message-ID: References: <3q4fbjls1l443iuh35lgfv86ennta3vk0i@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 156 X-Trace: sv3-wZfxLJ+EbLTemorssWfvK9RTZ8DS3rTrnWbldum8KCq5Bn8evvfhN5XThBpqHDJyyY+tkMn0PXEDa9c!1GxlcXNR8g/9Kr6lH4DSv0wZ5hPLWr+qaMRkbAs4RzQDnNoaXjKo00dlUzP0U4kXxAsw7lpoVy5L!Y1Odsg== X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 8149 On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 05:33:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >On a sunny day (Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:35:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin > wrote in ><3q4fbjls1l443iuh35lgfv86ennta3vk0i@4ax.com>: > >>On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 06:01:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Aug 2024 08:56:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>> wrote in >>>: >>> >>>>On Fri, 09 Aug 2024 06:38:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 9 Aug 2024 02:18:17 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman >>>>> wrote in : >>>>> >>>>>>On 8/08/2024 8:23 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:36 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman >>>>>>> wrote in : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/08/2024 3:27 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>> Heating for fusion: Why toast plasma when you can microwave it! >>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131216.htm >>>>>>>>> Carving a new path forward for compact fusion vessels >>>>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>>>> August 6, 2024 >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> DOE/Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory >>>>>>>>> Summary: >>>>>>>>> Can plasma be sufficiently heated inside a tokamak using only microwaves? >>>>>>>>> New research suggests it can! Eliminating the central ohmic heating coil >>>>>>>>> normally used in tokamaks will free up much-needed space for a more compact, >>>>>>>>> efficient spherical tokamak. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not so much carving a new path as looking for one. Maybe be gyrotrons >>>>>>>> can heat the plasma enough, but planing to do experiment which can test >>>>>>>> whether they can isn't exactly carving a new path - more just looking at >>>>>>>> a possible new path. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bye bye ITER and that otehr fusion attempt mayonaise thing >>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131357.htm >>>>>>>>> Researchers dig deeper into stability challenges of nuclear fusion -- with mayonnaise >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now all I am waiting for is a 10 year old kid doing a better than break even fusion experiment in its parents >>>>>>>>> kitchen... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You may have to wait a long time. Mayonaise may exhibit Rayleigh-Taylor >>>>>>>> instability, but the lessons it might be able to impart would be >>>>>>>> difficult to translate into totomak design. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like that Farnsworth fusor thing >>>>>> >>>>>>Of course you do. You are too dim to notice that it can't generate >>>>>>enough energy to be a useful energy source - though it can be a handy >>>>>>source of neutrons if you need them. >>>>>> >>>>>>This spelled out if the link you posted, but clearly didn't read. >>>>>> >>>>>>> They mention the grid gets too hot as a problem. >>>>>>> Why not use a water filled pipe as grid, >>>>>>> heat the water to steam, drive a small steam engine >>>>>>> that drives a generator that drives a HV converter, >>>>>>> simple electronics, there is a table top experiment. >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor >>>>>>> so many simple ways to improve that setup! >>>>>> >>>>>>But none are going to make it an energy source. >>>>> >>>>>Yea, and planes could never fly as those were heavier than air. >>>>>There are solutions, some are simple. >>>>>I have been posting about that Farnsworth fusor many times, but your amnesia must have gotten to you again. >>>>> >>>>>What will never produce energy is the large political job creation projects for albert onestone parrots like ITER is. >>>>>Or that laser fusion crap in 'merrica. >>>> >>>>NIF is really about nuclear weapons, but the over-unity energy yield >>>>is interesting. >>> >>>Yes, but theequipment ises a zillio times more energy that is produced... >>>>> >>>>>Same for anti-gravity. >>>>> >>>>>This is fun info too, previous thing you did not graps: >>>>> Carvings at ancient monument may be world's oldest calendars >>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131238.htm >>>>> comets causing glowball cooling? >>>>> >>>>>As to solder, when was the last time your front limbs held a sodering iron? >>>> >>>>Good question! >>> >>>Yea, had not touched it in several days myself .. was repairing a watch... >>>need better tools, but it works again.. >>>We are in for some nice hot days here, 35 degrees C here predicted for Monday. >>>95 F? >> >> >>We're up in the mountains, in Truckee, and I'm not soldering here >>either. It's hit 92F during the day but it's cold at night. Well, 92 >>above an asphalt road; it's cooler in the woods. It's dry so doesn't >>feel very hot. We get occasional wafts of smoke, from the usual >>California forest fires. We had a bear stroll down the street >>yesterday. > >We now have more wolf problems, a place where close to where used to live and go a a kid >has now had wolves attack little kids and kill many sheep. >Still the idiot greenish politicians here want to keep protecting the wolves... >No big fires here, air is clean.. >I am close to the beach actually, little islands close to here are a big holiday attaction. >Ferries going there.. > https://www.dutchwaddenislands.com/ameland/inspiration > > >>I have a new intern starting soon, and there's so much to teach him, >>including soldering. > >Not much practical stuff teached in collage these days? >What is his eduction background? > >>> >>>As to that fusor, some old electron guns from color CRTs.. good focal point, 35 kV should be no problem >>>need a good lab and mechanical man. >>>Maybe some electron guns from old film scanner CRTs, those used even higher voltages. >>>electrons; more basic and simpler than light. >>>Farnsworth was a genius. >>> >> >>Yes. He was a mostly unlearned farm boy who invented electronic >>television near here, on Green Street. >> >>https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/cal0941.asp > >That is very nice > > >>It's not hard to build a particle accelerator to get some fusion, but >>it's not efficient. > >Yea, but something should be possible to increase on that 'fusor' setup. > >As it is all about tiny particles, whe should have a small portable fusion power plant >say one for every car and every household. >No more huge power lines, like we now have no more telegraph lines for data. > >It must be possible, we are overlooking something. >Atoms are very small... > Fission works fine, even better if we'd recycle used fuel. Natural gas is great too. We don't really have an energy problem.