Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Fred. Zwarts" Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Sequence of sequence, selection and iteration matters Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2024 18:51:36 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 82 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2024 18:51:37 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2f8ca44fc674f1b77eeed6105e880097"; logging-data="1511034"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/rabwG3mp3B/+QM27pe0ch" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:sHrYRMQWUYnmrDdqRvLvsELDmUM= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-GB Bytes: 4725 Op 09.jul.2024 om 18:44 schreef olcott: > On 7/9/2024 10:21 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >> Op 09.jul.2024 om 16:46 schreef olcott: >>> On 7/9/2024 9:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>> Indeed, no such HHH exists. This proves that HHH cannot possibly >>>> simulate itself correctly. >>> >>> "Correctly" means must do whatever the x86 code specifies. >> >> And since the x86 code never specifies an abort, it is incorrect to >> abort halfway a simulation that would halt. We know it would halt, >> because other simulators show that it halts when HHH is correctly >> simulated. >> If you want to deny this truth, point to the specification of the x86 >> language where it says that a program must be aborted. It is >> irrational to defend an unneeded abort with a reference to the x86 >> specifications. >> >>> You are in psychological denial causing you to be irrational. >> >> Illogical and irrelevant remarks ignored. I know olcott has problems >> to recognize the truth, so I do not feel offended. >> >>> >>>>> >>>>> _DDD() >>>>> [00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD >>>>> [0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>> [00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>> [00002173] 5d         pop ebp >>>>> [00002174] c3         ret >>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174] >>>>> >>>>> *When DDD is correctly emulated by any pure function* >>>>> *HHH x86 emulator that can possibly exist* which calls >>>>> an emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat this process until the >>>>> emulated DDD is aborted. >>>> >> >> And the fact *that* it aborts, makes the simulation incorrect (as >> Sipser would agree with), because the X86 code does not specify an >> abort at that point. Therefore, the only conclusion must be: No such >> HHH exists. > > HHH is fully operational in the x86utm operating system. > > _DDD() > [00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping > [00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping > [00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD > [0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD) > [00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04 > [00002173] 5d         pop ebp > [00002174] c3         ret > Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174] > > When DDD is correctly emulated by any pure function x86 > emulator HHH calls an emulated HHH(DDD) this call cannot > possibly return. HHH cannot possibly simulate itself to the end and return, which shows that its simulation is incorrect. > This prevents the emulated DDD from ever > reaching past its own machine address of 0000216b and halting. Indeed, which shows that the simulation is incorrect. > > HHH is required to report that it must abort the emulaton of > its input. HHH cannot correctly report that DDD need not be > aborted on the basis of the behavior of a directly executed > DDD(DDD) after HHH has already aborted its emulated DDD. > The sequence of sequence, selection and iteration cannot be > ignored. Your seem to lose control of the discussion. HHH cannot report anything. It is just a simulator that is unable to simulate itself op to the return. HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly. So, it gives up and returns. There is no report, only an incomplete simulation.