Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 07:26:57 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 142 Message-ID: <v60rmh$1kr1q$4@dont-email.me> References: <v5vkun$1b0k9$1@dont-email.me> <v5vmen$1oanb$9@i2pn2.org> <v5vng3$1f17p$1@dont-email.me> <v5vp28$1oana$5@i2pn2.org> <v5vq26$1fg22$1@dont-email.me> <v5vr16$1oana$9@i2pn2.org> <v5vsa2$1fqfa$1@dont-email.me> <ae84c00b2eda6f7bc22188e852ce6e551d8b16aa@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2024 14:26:57 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="be8a74d1ebb79f081dc40b5f7175e5aa"; logging-data="1731642"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18JCtmx7qDBqrMvID+FCqM0" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:+LP9Arn9NwCiu7YjWM5pI+rlrBU= In-Reply-To: <ae84c00b2eda6f7bc22188e852ce6e551d8b16aa@i2pn2.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 6659 On 7/2/2024 6:30 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/1/24 11:31 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/1/2024 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 7/1/24 10:52 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 7/1/2024 9:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 7/1/24 10:09 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 7/1/2024 8:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/1/24 9:25 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); >>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop() >>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion() >>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion(); >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> int main() >>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Loop); >>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Recursion); >>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows >>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, >>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these emulations >>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Then why do you contradict yourself below? Did you forget to lie? >>>>> >>>>> Because I didn't contradict my self or lie, as the programs are >>>>> different. >>>>> >>>> >>>> See what you agreed to by re-reading the words that >>>> you agreed to and you will see that you forgot to lie >>>> this time. >>>> >>> >>> Your streaching. You know what I mean, and if you want to get >>> finicky, I will pull out the doxens of LIES that you have implicitly >>> admitted to by not providing the references you claimed to have. >>> >>> Yes, HHH must abort its emulation to return, but that doesn't mean >>> that THIS input in non-halting. >> >> *I tricked you into forgetting to lie so you told the truth* > > No, your tricked your self into admitting your logic needs to use > trickery, and fell into your own trap. > > Yes, you need to choose an HHH that aborts the DDD that is made from it > to have an HHH that returns, This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss. I am unwilling to discuss any other problem. This does meet the Sipser approved criteria. <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never stop running unless aborted then H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022> I don't care that you contradict yourself later on, that it your problem and not mine. > but this does not meen that htis HHH NEEDS > to abort its emulation of its input, but does. The difference is that > for the first question, we still have free reign to choose the decider, > and the input hasn't been actually created, just the template for the > input (since to have behavior, it needs to be a specific program). > > The second quesition, the decider and the input have been fixed, so when > we hypothosize about need, and look at an alternate decider, the input, > having been fixed, doesn't change. Thus, the full simulation that "needs > to" refers to sees the decider emulate the input, and INCORRECT decide > to abort and return to its caller which hahalts, thus showing no NEED to > abort in the decider. > >> >> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022> >> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D >> until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never >> stop running unless aborted then >> >> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022> > > But here "Correct Simulation" means a simulation that exactly reproduces > the behavior of directly running the program represented by the input, > which means on the NEVER aborts its simulation. > > Since your H does neither that type of simulation, nor correctly predict > what that type of simulation would do, you can't correctly use the > second paragraph. > > Then you have that you input doesn't actually represent a full program, > so you just start with an error, but one we can correct since we know > the decider that you intend to pair it with. > >> >> As Ben has already agreed to criteria has been met. > > Nope, again, putting false words into other mouths. > >>> >>> I could point out that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you HHH to actually >>> correctly do the emulation you claim on the input provided (since >>> there is no code provded to emulate the call HHH) so your question is >>> just invalid. >> >> *You already know that I already provided this code* >> https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf >> > > Which isn't the trace described, and Isn't even the full code as there > ard empty stubs that seem to be replaced. > > So, you just continue ti LIE. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer