Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIEcuIElzYWFr?= Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2024 20:05:32 -0600 Organization: Christians and Atheists United Against Creeping Agnosticism Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <58fc6559638120b31e128fe97b5e955248afe218@i2pn2.org> <1173a460ee95e0ca82c08abecdefc80ba86646ac@i2pn2.org> <5f6daf68f1b4ffac854d239282bc811b5b806659@i2pn2.org> <60e7a93cb8cec0afb68b3e40a0e82e9d63fa8e2a@i2pn2.org> <16d10a0709c3c319cbb98138bb8937b4f7e9c563@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2024 04:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b0231afd23a1448c928a9dd9c1dad82c"; logging-data="3533704"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18MFW7uoHQ6Il97TvFvkXHC" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:yxEkUMgRhQz69BaW8QPLzyK88jI= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 3294 On 2024-07-19 19:10, olcott wrote: > On 7/19/2024 7:44 PM, André G. Isaak wrote: >> On 2024-07-19 10:02, olcott wrote: >> >>> A Self-Modifying Turing Machine is defined as a Turing >>> Machine Description that has access to its own tape >>> location on the UTM that is simulating it. >> >> Umm. Maybe explain how that's supposed to work... >> >> A TM has no idea whether it is being run directly or being run in a >> UTM. And even if it is being run in a UTM, it certainly does NOT have >> access to the machine description which is present on the UTM's tape. >> > > A self-modifying TM knows that it is only simulated by a UTM How exactly is it supposed to know that? Please explain using ACTUAL Turing Machines, not C code. > and knows where it is located on the UTM tape. And how exactly would it have access to that? A TM emulated by a UTM has no access to the UTM's tape. >> There's lots of examples of UTMs available on the web. Maybe you >> should actually try playing around with some of them so you can learn >> how actual UTMs work. Hint: It's not how you think. Once again, you should head the above advice. Apparently you have no clue how actual UTMs work. André -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.