Path: ...!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 20:18:52 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 141 Message-ID: References:

<7b6a00827bfcc84e99e19a0d0ae6028ebcdc263c@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 03:18:53 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="29a678b7ecb7074967021c8dcb9f1179"; logging-data="1972322"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+C7Y3bGV8Pde1HUgJNccY+" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:nbxY9VAc6Xf71A3Y0ymhSZ//jgY= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 6541 On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott: >>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); >>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion(); >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> int main() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Loop); >>>>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Recursion); >>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows >>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, >>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these emulations >>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This the problem that I am willing to discuss. >>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem. >>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>>> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D >>>>>>>> until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never >>>>>>>> stop running unless aborted then >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >>>>>>>> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be >>>>>>> irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further. >>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct >>>>>>> simulation. Your simulation is not correct. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest >>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one. >>>>>> >>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>> >>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an >>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon. >>>> >>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded. >>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist >>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process >>>> until aborted (which may be never). >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are not >>> correct. >>> >>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, because >>> you don't understand what Truth actually means. >> > > So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show Godel > wrong? > > Or are you just admitting you LIED about that? > >> void DDD() >> { >> HHH(DDD); >> } >> >> int main() >> { >> HHH(DDD); >> } >> >> >> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D >> until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never >> stop running unless aborted then >> >> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >> >> >> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above criteria* >> > Nope. > > Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" its input > by the definition of producing the exact results of executing the > machine represented by it, I can see what you fail to understand. Professor Sipser would not make this same mistake. Professor Sipser probably does understand the x86 language. Shared-memory implementation of the Karp-Sipser kernelization process https://inria.hal.science/hal-03404798/file/hipc2021.pdf -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer