Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 10:29:10 +0300
Organization: -
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <v6dg46$8ctp$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v644pn$29t4h$3@dont-email.me> <v645v1$29pag$3@dont-email.me> <v646v5$2agfo$1@dont-email.me> <f01c00463608385b18dba3b5a945f5007e9b3c9e@i2pn2.org> <v68odk$39dkv$6@dont-email.me> <5c7fd202521f077fd21460b0d7f6a435f9396a62@i2pn2.org> <v68pq1$39dkv$9@dont-email.me> <v6aofa$3n2bs$1@dont-email.me> <v6ber3$3qiio$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2024 09:29:10 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="edb2eb5249011e32130cd511aefc90e8";
	logging-data="275385"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Be4DbUYcxoYqq2nx39iC1"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:14o/HYm2H7l+Qyn4Kh1h7fo+lXk=
Bytes: 3368

On 2024-07-06 12:54:59 +0000, olcott said:

> On 7/6/2024 1:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-05 12:43:45 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 7/5/2024 7:26 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Fri, 05 Jul 2024 07:20:04 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 7/5/2024 4:49 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Wed, 03 Jul 2024 13:57:40 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/3/2024 1:40 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 03.jul.2024 om 20:20 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by any element of the infinite set of every
>>>>>>>>> pure function HHH cannot possibly reach its own ret instruction and
>>>>>>>>> halt. That HHH aborts its emulation at some point or never aborts
>>>>>>>>> its emulation cannot possibly change this.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ad hominem attacks always try to hide a lack of argumentation.
>>>>>>>> It has been proved that HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate
>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That is false and you know it. That might not be a flat out lie as it
>>>>>>> is an sloppy use of language.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> HHH does correctly simulate itself simulating DDD one time, then it
>>>>>>> stops correctly simulating itself because this criteria is met:
>>>>>>> HHH correctly simulates its input DDD until HHH correctly
>>>>>>> determines that its simulated DDD would never stop running
>>>>>>> unless aborted
>>>>>> But it would stop running.
>>>>> Not if not aborted.
>>>> But it is aborted!
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> *It is not aborted when HHH makes its decision to abort*
>> 
>> If it will be aborted in future it will not run forever.
>> 
> 
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>      stop running unless aborted then
> 
>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
> 
> HHH(DDD) does meet this criteria. Professor Sipser is not wrong.

You have not proven that it does meet both criteria.

-- 
Mikko