Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!tor.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Aether Regained Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: The most ridiculous science mistake in history. Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:16:00 +0000 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 110 Message-ID: References: <1qqxctr.cx8smcpwxnigN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <4e512aaf748e2bc2d6ad31eeb3d40ea2@www.novabbs.com> <1qqz0eh.1kx2ym5reuvw4N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:14:39 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: tor.dont-email.me; posting-host="58fa676c882670240bae87b2124aadaa"; logging-data="3931340"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19DOfOBXlOjmqJ/uxCsiQYAq4Ai6KAcgvA=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:maQORdcBNHr4FdGSSiT9Fq4vuz4= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5886 Aether Regained:> Volney: >> On 3/27/2024 8:36 AM, Aether Regained wrote: >>> >>> @Volney, see my reply to Gary Harnagel citing Dirac's 1951 "Is there and >>> Aether?", which is cited below too: >>> >>> The gist is that one can safely let go of this notion due to Einstein >>> that the aether may not be conceived as having parts which are in motion. >> >> Any "motion" of the purported aether doesn't show up anywhere. Even LET >> while calling for an aether can use any speed you want for the aether >> and it still works. Does that mean aether has all speeds simultaneously? >> >> Also motion of the aether violates the Principle of Relativity. The rest >> frame of the aether is a special frame while the PoR states there are no >> special frames. >> >> (In LET since the aether can have any speed, there is no special aether >> rest frame) >>> >>> Dirac 1951: "Is there and Aether?" >>> https://doi.org/10.1038/168906a0 >>> ######################################## >>> >>> In the last century, the idea of a universal and all-pervading aether >>> was popular as a foundation on which to build the theory of >>> electromagnetic phenomena. The situation was profoundly influenced in >>> 1905 by Einstein's discovery of the principle of relativity, leading to >>> the requirement of a four-dimensional formulation of all natural laws. >>> It was soon found that the existence of an aether could not be fitted in >>> with relativity, and since relativity was well established, the aether >>> was abandoned. >> >> It was not "soon found". Einstein stated his SR works wouldn't involve >> any aether at the beginning of the 1905 paper. He didn't claim the >> aether was false, just that he wasn't using it. >>> >>> Physical knowledge has advanced very much since 1905, notably by the >>> arrival of quantum mechanics, and the situation has again changed. If >>> one re-examines the question in the light of present-day knowledge, one >>> finds that the aether is no longer ruled out by relativity, and good >>> reasons can now be advanced for postulating an aether. >> >> Quantum theories have no need for an aether, and are incompatible with >> an aether. >>> >>> Let us consider in its simplest form the old argument for showing that >>> the existence of an aether is incompatible with relativity. Take a >>> region of space-time which is a perfect vacuum, that is, there is no >>> matter in it and also no fields. According to the principle of >>> relativity, this region must be isotropic in the Lorentz sense—all >>> directions within the light-cone must be equivalent to one another. >>> According to the ather hypothesis, at each point in the region there >>> must be an aether, moving with some velocity, presumably less than the >>> velocity of light. >> >> Relative to what? All motion is relative. >> >>> This velocity provides a preferred direction within >>> the light-cone in space-time, >> >> Making it incompatible with the PoR. >> >>> which direction should show itself up in >>> suitable experiments. >> >> This has been looked for, without success. The best example is the MMX >> itself. >> >>> Thus we get a contradiction with the relativistic >>> requirement that all directions within the light-cone are equivalent. >> >> Which rules out an aether, or at least an aether with the property of >> motion. As Einstein said. >>> >>> This argument is unassailable from the 1905 point of view, but at the >>> present time it needs modification, because we have to apply quantum >>> mechanics to the aether. >> >> QM has no need for an aether and is incompatible with one. >> >> [snip bla bla bla] > > [snip bla bla bla]!!! > > I wonder whether you realize that you are responding to P. A. M. Dirac. > Go check out who that is on wikipedia. > > Everything within the line of hashes ### is a full reproduction of > Dirac's 1951 Note/Letter to the Nature Journal, titled: > > "Is there an Aether?" > > https://doi.org/10.1038/168906a0 > > and here is Schrödinger's commentary on Dirac's aether electrodynamics. > > https://www.nature.com/articles/169538a0.pdf > > I hope you don't need an introduction to who Schrödinger is. > Rereading this, I realize that I was unnecessarily rude. But, in my defense, I was more than a little put off by your response to P. A. M. Dirac's "Is there an Aether?", like he was some run-of-the-mill crank. Dirac was a man of few words, and when he did talk, people listened carefully.