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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: john larkin Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Exploding pagers Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2024 14:06:39 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 109 Message-ID: References: <1r06ful.14arqa7duhny6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <36prej9i23etotp04kkbv59bmlf03ra5m4@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2024 23:05:24 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="55214d4f9562cc161f7b1053d99db9ab"; logging-data="3562185"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+O9a5YTMJw7ZDLdk9WJ0LO" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Cancel-Lock: sha1:kZ8NyKuHxQdSlpoNvWQmOD5poLs= Bytes: 6444 On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:56:01 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cursitor Doom wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john >>>>>>> larkin wrote in >>>>>>> : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally >>>>>>>>> booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>>> would be expected. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>>>>>> *designed*. >>>>>>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>>> pagers >>>>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email. >>>>>>> So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you >>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got >>>>>> sufficiently hot. >>>>> >>>>> They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are >>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of >>>>> something more powerful. >>>> >>>> Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as >>>> could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a >>>> specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists. > >Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive > >That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if >it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it >though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos. > >A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. >Weight really matters in a portable device. > >>> PETN heated by a laser. >>> >>> . >>> >>> Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion >> >> But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand >> that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of >> temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium >> battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which >> does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which >> is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives, >> but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to >> pursue the matter ad infinitum. > >Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no >problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament >coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was >almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was >cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives. > >There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat. > >I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to >do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas >hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle. A great opportunity to make more martyrs.