Path: ...!news.roellig-ltd.de!open-news-network.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "Carlos E.R." Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android Subject: Re: Which uses less power Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 22:40:05 +0200 Lines: 139 Message-ID: <5i3oukx04j.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> References: <78zxo4y77ds7.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <2szr1kqz0zk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net zS++pWGzffo0P+RSqGwiRge3lpCA7RSZ4a4MU49z43vYrf1I/P X-Orig-Path: Telcontar.valinor!not-for-mail Cancel-Lock: sha1:xhiu4qJeDwtb19GepQJAcC8/EYc= sha256:j41iXk1UwD4Tu//YkAzJtD8KnMhJyTXMeuN2tXlT+0A= User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: es-ES, en-CA In-Reply-To: <2szr1kqz0zk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> Bytes: 7805 On 2024-10-23 19:21, VanguardLH wrote: > "Carlos E.R." wrote: > >> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote: >>> Chris wrote: >>> >>>> sms wrote: >>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote: >>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips? >>>>>> >>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output? >>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any idea? >>>>> >>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W. >>>>> >>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW. >>>>> >>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power. >>>> >>>> Do you have a source? >>> >>> Do you to refute? >> >> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-) > > Me, too. I'd like to know the basis for both claims. Alas, there are > so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices > employed that the results are unpredictable. > > BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive. Batteries in > BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the > battery in a phone. But that's for BLE devices. Unless you turn it > off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode? No, not > when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone > will go into sleep mode. Low power BT does not transmits during silence, AFAIK. > > My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on > the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in > the phone to a BLE device. BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal, > but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes > assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode. > From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not > in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices). > > Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device, > but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find: > > https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery > > The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his > articles is cited. Might be this guy: > > https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/ > > Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth". Not which version of it. He > didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it > supports. We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either. Someone mentioned an app to measure power drain. > > Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more > when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf. Be interesting to know if loss > of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the > natural drain of the phone's battery. > > Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is > consuming power. The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio > protocol stack. There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone > to the BT device. Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to > keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no > traffic is being sent to the endpoints. > > https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison > > That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT > consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference. Again, we don't know which BT > is involved for the OP. It also mentions packets are sent in bursts > using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the > phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts). > > So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE > device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are > several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the > speaker. Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the > phone's battery. While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for > output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100% > efficient), but again affected by the volume level. However, who > listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to > play at low volume? Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to > produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the > speaker in the phone. Heavy bass uses more power. More energy to push > the cone further. Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a > lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same > volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker. Headphones > are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not > have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones > or ear buds. The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger > mass. Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the > speaker(s). > > Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average, > but the variables above can produce varying results. Meanwhile the BLE > radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more > than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are > the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over > the time the BLE device is active. There are no bursts with traditional > BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more > power than the internal speaker. > > Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone? One. So forget about > stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality. With > headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo. No, my phone does have stereo speakers, but you have to turn it 90 degrees (to horizontal). > > As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to > compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the > BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption. Play the same media > for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal > speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset. > A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE > is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design. Start with a > fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on > the battery even when idle. The OP needs to determine how his > unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE > headset. There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario. -- Cheers, Carlos.