Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 87 Message-ID: References: <286747edde7812d05b1bdf4f59af1cffdd44e95a@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 03:35:44 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9eeddbf0661af45b9b764b78cd434096"; logging-data="997430"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19r02+LIz0rqDOiOjB8KVqp" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:t4u8oLJMeP5NjbaR9YuFnjSgQcU= X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241117-2, 11/17/2024), Outbound message Bytes: 4571 On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>> { >>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>    return; >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>> >>>>>> DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except your DDD *CAN'T BE EMULTATED* by *ANY* HHH, as it is >>>>> IMPOSSIBLE to emulate the Call HHH per the x86 language from your >>>>> input, as the data isn't tnere. >>>>> >>>> >>>> In patent law this is called incorporation by reference. >>> >>> And you need to PRECISELY specify what you are referencing. >>> >>> >>>> I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings >>>> of HHH. You already know that it is ridiculously stupid >>>> that you suggest I should write them all down. >>> >>> And thus admit that you are not talking sense, as each HHH that you >>> think of creates a DIFFERENT program DDD >>> >>>> >>>> When each of them correctly emulates N instructions of its >>>> input then N instructions have been correctly emulated. It >>>> is despicably dishonest of you to say that when N instructions >>>> have been correctly emulated that no instructions have been >>>> correctly emulating. >>> >>> No, it is dishonest for you to lie. >>> >>> I never said that N instructions correctly emulated is no >>> instructions correctly emulated, just that it isn't a correct >>> emulation that provides the answer for the semantic property of >>> halting, which requires emulating to the final state or an unbounded >>> number of steps. >>> >> >> void Infinite_Recursion() >> { >>    Infinite_Recursion(); >>    return; >> } >> >> You are stupid liar. A smart liar would not be caught >> in a lie with such a simple counter-example >> THAT IS NEITHER EMULATED TO THE FINAL STATE NOR AN >> UNBOUNDED NUMBER OF STEPS TO DETERMINE NON-HALT STATUS. >> > > No, but it is the fact that it CAN be emulated for an unbounded number > of steps that makes it non-halting. Your rebuttals are stupid. It cannot be emulated for an unbounded number of steps. That is a stupid thing to say. If you were not stupid you could say that it cannot possibly reach its "return" instruction final halt state even in a hypothetical number of steps. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer