Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: John Harshman Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Red and yellow parrot feathers Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2024 10:13:42 -0800 Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 74 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <-e2dnTUDGvrLILr6nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="4834"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id C1003229782; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 13:13:47 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9796D229765 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2024 13:13:45 -0500 (EST) id 252485DF9B; Sun, 3 Nov 2024 18:13:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185F45DF99 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2024 18:13:44 +0000 (UTC) by egress-mx.phmgmt.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80DB6037D for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2024 18:12:44 +0000 (UTC) by serv-2.ord.giganews.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2603D440874 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2024 12:13:43 -0600 (CST) by serv-2.i.ord.giganews.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id 4A3IDg4m023319; Sun, 3 Nov 2024 12:13:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: serv-2.i.ord.giganews.com: news set sender to poster@giganews.com using -f X-Path: news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2024 18:13:42 +0000 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 6855 On 11/3/24 9:49 AM, RonO wrote: > On 11/3/2024 10:07 AM, John Harshman wrote: >> On 11/3/24 6:13 AM, RonO wrote: >>> https://www.science.org/content/article/why-are-parrots-so-colorful- >>> study-points-simple-chemical-tweak >>> >>> There is a link to the research article in this news piece, but it >>> may not be open access.  It is a pretty amazing molecular genetic >>> analysis coming out of an ecology and evolution group of >>> researchers.  They utilized genomic sequence, long read RNA Seq, >>> single cell RNA Seq, and regulatory sequences involved in gene >>> expression in feather cells. >>> >>> They identified the causative gene for turning red feathers yellow, >>> and the possible causative mutation that is segregating in one >>> species that is responsible for the recessive red feather >>> expression.  The difference in expression levels for the gene are not >>> that great, but there is a larger difference in single cell types. >>> The enzyme is expressed in all cells, but has higher expression in >>> the yellow feathers.  This increase in expression is enough to >>> convert enough red pigment to yellow to make yellow feathers. >>> >>> The only issue that I see in this paper is that they may not have the >>> causative mutation.  They mapped the causative gene because there >>> were 3 SNP (single nucleotide polymorphisms) found to be >>> significant.  They mapped to possibly a small region of the genome >>> flanking the ALDH3A2 gene, but two of the SNPs were on one contig and >>> 1 SNP was on another containing the gene.  This means that there are >>> issues with not having continuous sequence in this region.  It could >>> be repetitive sequence or issues with genome assembly.  What they >>> needed to do was long read genomic sequencing of the region to obtain >>> the continuous sequence in order to determine if they were dealing >>> with something like a retroviral insertion or some other assembly >>> issue.  The causative mutation may exist in the missing sequence >>> between the two contigs. >>> >>> In my own experience we have the recessive white allele at the C >>> locus in chickens.  This mutation turns out to be due to a retroviral >>> insertion in an intron of the Tyrosinase gene that causes >>> differential splicing in epidermal cells, but normal splicing in >>> other tissues. When you assemble a genome out of short reads using a >>> reference genome if the reference genome (in our case it was Red >>> Junglefowl that did not have recessive white) you get two contigs >>> cleanly separated from each other with the retroviral insertion >>> sequence missing.  These researchers may be having issues with >>> something similar. >> >> Do you know what causes the defective splicing in epidermal cells? > > They do not know the cause.  For some reason the retroviral sequence > continues to be successfully spliced in certain tissues, but for some > cell types like epidermal cells there is a mess up and incorrect > splicing occurs so that a functional tyrosinase transcript is not > produced.  It is the reason why the early protein work on recessive > white found functional tyrosinase expressed in recessive white birds. > That is the reason that recessive white was a black eyed white. > Tyrosinase was still produced in the retina, but it wasn't produced in > the feathers or leg scutes.  Tyrosinase is produced in the dermis.  That > is why the normal junglefowl dermal pigmentation of the shank can be > express in white feathered breeds like the French Bresse breed of > chickens and recessive white Silkie that has pigmented dermal and > internal tissue pigmentation.  Silkies have black muscles, connective > tissue and bones. > > The retroviral insertion affects splicing in a tissue specific manner. > > https://www.ambresse.com/french-bresse-chicken.html#:~:text=Bresse%20growth%20rate%20outstrips%20the,higher%20prices%20in%20the%20marketplace. > > Ron Okimoto >> > Perhaps the mutation introduces a binding site for some transcription factor or regulatory RNA that's expressed only in epidermal cells, and this happens to interfere with splicing?