Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (bertietaylor) Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Re: Europa and energy transfer Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 12:58:52 +0000 Organization: novaBBS Message-ID: <06a1ee3d6635ad6c5ea00106657e4305@www.novabbs.com> References: <59851aac1a7edb0b9d9ddab7cdf8eb09@www.novabbs.com> <56e0f0368b32ee505901d6b19a26e7fe@www.novabbs.com> <5485db0fbdb51a017b1089635dadbd26@www.novabbs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="451428"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="4CIDjmRjWbqC4EEN5EcU+HA+pIaOwwy51Z63DnRPIoA"; User-Agent: Rocksolid Light X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$qzOho3tT.1Pff1U0piUw2O95mgPIC5cMvbtR9FN4MOi0WnbR8s4Qu X-Rslight-Posting-User: d1111375bdddd1d0b42e6fbe96c9934b24d8a010 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Bytes: 4761 Lines: 83 On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 1:24:33 +0000, Bertietaylor wrote: > On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 0:24:59 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote: > >> bertietaylor wrote: >>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:27:05 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote: >>> >>>> Bertietaylor wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 0:27:40 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> bertietaylor wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:05:55 +0000, x wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/29/24 21:53, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>>>>> NASA has a mission to the Jovian system, to study Europa. That moon is >>>>>>>>> interesting because it appears to have liquid water under an icy >>>>>>>>> surface. The heat need to keep the water liquid comes from the >>>>>>>>> stretching and compression Europa experiences during its orbit around >>>>>>>>> Jupiter, the orbit not been exactly circular. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So much, so simple. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some thought made me realise that although the tidal forces on Europa >>>>>>>>> mean that it is not exactly spherical, its two bulges cannot remain >>>>>>>>> perfectly aligned with Jupiter, because Europa's angular velocity >>>>>>>>> relative to Jupiter is higher at periapsis than at apoapsis. The result >>>>>>>>> is that the nearer bulge is sometimes ahead, and sometimes behind, >>>>>>>>> relative to Europa's orbital motion, resulting in a net force backwards >>>>>>>>> along the orbit, or forward along the orbit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again, certainly stuff that's already well known. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as I can see, the energy that is being dissipated as heat inside >>>>>>>>> Europa has to come from changes to Europa's orbit. Further, if Europa >>>>>>>>> were either perfectly rigid, or perfectly elastic, there would be no >>>>>>>>> energy transfer, and consequently no change to the orbit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It would make no difference if Jupiter itself were perfectly rigid, so >>>>>>>>> the transfer cannot involve tides on Jupiter generated by Europa. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So the existence of the orbital energy transfer depends on Europa being >>>>>>>>> neither perfectly rigid nor perfectly elastic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What escapes me is the mechanism. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any thoughts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am thinking that the standard model for Earth is that supposedly >>>>>>>> in the 1800s Lord Kelvin did some calculations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At that time they had thought the universe was only full of stars. >>>>>> >>>>>> Utter nonsense yet again, crackpot. >>>>>> >>>>>> By 1600 astronmers were well aware of different types of celestial >>>>>> bodies and beginning to measure distances to such. >>>>> >>>>> Did they have a clue about galaxies. >>>> >>>> "They" had a clue as early as 450 BCE crackpot. >>> >>> No, fool. >>> They thought the stars were the lights from Heaven. >> >> No, not everyone thought that crackpot. > > Who in Europe did not before Copernicus? >> >>>> >>>> The first attempts at measuring distant objects where made around 1000 >>>> CE crackpot. >>>> >>>> The invention of the telescope in 1610 rather clinched the deal >>>> crackpot. >>> >>> Penisnino, all they found then that crystal spheres MAY NOT exist and >>> the Earth MIGHT go around the Sun. >> >> Utterly wrong crackpot. Ignorant fool the Penisnino. Wants to change the past by denial after fucking up the present with e=mcc crap. >> >>